Judaism was already formed before Christianity, however why would another prophet/religion be necessary after Christ’s death? As catholics we are asked to respect the faith of Islam because they believe in the Abrahamic God - but why would God want another religion formed after his son had died for our sins?
I very much doubt that God wanted Islam to come into existence. But God is very serious about allowing us to exercise our free will, in spite of all the trouble it gets us into. God will deny us neither the freedom nor the power to do things which go very much against his will.
Some people believe that Jacobs twin brother Esau was the start is Islam and I believe but my be wrong - Islam believes that Esau got the birth right from Issac not Jacob who became Israel - and it says in the old testament that Esau’s descendents would be a thorn in the side of Jacobs descendents.
Yes, I believe I read that myself.
I do find it odd though that such a worldwide large religion could have been formed 700 years after Jesus appeared on earth. Obviously, the Jews were already here and we now have numerous christian churches - however for yet another religion to be set up and gain such a large congregation, which does not believe that Jesus is the son of God, seems very strange to me.
Pretty much the same thing could be said regarding atheism. :eek:
One might ask the same question about Mormonism and about all the denominations of Protestantism. It seems to be in the nature of humanity to always search for new answers and new revelations to spiritual matters. A rabbi once stated he thought it was part of G-d’s purpose to allow mankind to have many religions, apart from the free will he bestowed upon us. It is also thought by some in the Jewish community that both Christianity and Islam are ways in which ethical monotheism has been and continues to be spread throughout the nations of the world.
Why does God ever allow His will to be opposed by man? He allows a very radical freedom in this world-and lets *us *make the choice as to whether we’ll choose good or evil, life or death, God or no God out of the options, including the options He’s revealed and offers. Having said that, a Muslim can still choose life within their own religion, by following, with whatever faith they have, the goodness and truth they find there as it aligns with the truth as it’s been written in their hearts by God.
A very nice summary of our hopes for any person outside the Catholic Church.
More generally, why does God permit incomplete faiths or inaccurate catechesis to exist?
Or rephrased, why does God permit us to fill ourselves with impure beliefs, desires, etc?
Or at the heart of the matter, why does God permit us to sin, even when He knows it will be deadly (spiritually as well as physically)?
islam was actually formed before Christianity but mohammed came after they still believed in God and pretty much the basics and the new testament but briefly then mohammed came and started what islam is today. I absolutely hat though when people tease muslims and say they are going to hell because thats not true they can still go to heaven and they believe different beliefs but in the same God this is the same god who created us and gave his son to us and he started our church. Plus to tease muslims is just very mean and i hate to see that happen to them because they did nothing wrong.
I’m already in trouble with the auditors so…I believe Mohamed was deceived by a demonic apparition. Why would God need to send a ‘follow up’ apparition after Christ had already saved us? Also, an ‘angel’ beating somebody up until they comply with their will, as was the case for Mohamed, does not ring true for me. A demon, who can take any appearance it wishes, forces an individual to perform their will, does not recognise Jesus as the son of God (by definition and anti-Christ) would represent a much more valid explanation to me. (PS this is not intended to infer that there are not numerous followers of Islam that are loving decent people; and if anything I have said is offensive then I apologise but it is my view).
It was Ishmael.
Hagar and Ishmael
1 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian slave named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, “The LORD has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her.”
Abram agreed to what Sarai said. 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived.
When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress. 5 Then Sarai said to Abram, “You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my slave in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the LORD judge between you and me.”
6 “Your slave is in your hands,” Abram said. “Do with her whatever you think best.” Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her.
7 The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, slave of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”
“I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.
9 Then the angel of the LORD told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”
11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:
“You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,[a]
for the LORD has heard of your misery.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward** all his brothers.”
13 She gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: “You are the God who sees me,” for she said, “I have now seen[c] the One who sees me.” 14 That is why the well was called Beer Lahai Roi[d]; it is still there, between Kadesh and Bered.
15 So Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son she had borne. 16 Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael.
God replied: Even so, your wife Sarah is to bear you a son, and you shall call him Isaac. It is with him that I will maintain my covenant as an everlasting covenant and with his descendants after him. Now as for Ishmael, I will heed you: I hereby bless him. I will make him fertile and will multiply him exceedingly. He will become the father of twelve chieftains, and I will make of him a great nation.
Then Sarah had Isaac and was jealous and made Abraham force Hagar and Ishmael out into the desert to die.
9 Sarah noticed the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham playing with her son Isaac; so she demanded of Abraham: “Drive out that slave and her son! No son of that slave is going to share the inheritance with my son Isaac!” Abraham was greatly distressed because it concerned a son of his. But God said to Abraham: Do not be distressed about the boy or about your slave woman. Obey Sarah, no matter what she asks of you; for it is through Isaac that descendants will bear your name. As for the son of the slave woman, I will make a nation of him also,* since he too is your offspring.
Early the next morning Abraham got some bread and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. Then, placing the child on her back,* he sent her away. As she roamed aimlessly in the wilderness of Beer-sheba, the water in the skin was used up. So she put the child down under one of the bushes, and then went and sat down opposite him, about a bowshot away; for she said to herself, “I cannot watch the child die.” As she sat opposite him, she wept aloud.
God heard the boy’s voice, and God’s angel called to Hagar from heaven: “What is the matter, Hagar? Do not fear; God has heard the boy’s voice in this plight of his. Get up, lift up the boy and hold him by the hand; for I will make of him a great nation.”
Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. She went and filled the skin with water, and then let the boy drink. God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the wilderness and became an expert bowman.
There was always a tribe of people who claimed Abraham/Ishmael as their antecedents who lived in the Arabian peninsula. They believed in one God. Mohammed was born of that clan. Hagar’s well is still a place of religious veneration.
I wonder what would have happened if Sarah had been kind and generous instead of spiteful and rejecting. Perhaps the world would look quite different today.**
I am not sure if anyone was teasing the muslims, I certainly wasn’t, I was asking the question in view of the fact the religion ‘purportedly’ started long after Christ had been on earth - however I see one poster has stated islam had started before christianity, which if true would make more sense IMHO.
Problem with this claim and especially the Islamic arguments which cite Torah/Talmud/Bible as proof of Islam as the ‘first religion’ is a two-word answer: cherry picking. Put simply, it is more than convenient for the Islamic argument that the verses which support Islam to be picked out and the rest dismissed as being ‘human corruption’ which is exactly the argument that Islamic scholars make.
Add to that the superimposition of their own history and you’ve got a huge muddle. Islam believes it was Ishma’iil (i.e. father of all the Arab tribes) and not Isaac (ancestor of the Jews) which was the sacrifice of Abraham. The only real reason for the claim, and their only proof, is the Qur’an.
Also, there is not one scrap of evidence to suggest any involvement in the Kaa’ba’s building by Abraham (another Islamic claim). All of this is a superimposition upon established history and is easily refuted by the Ka’aba’s use by pre-Islamic Arab tribes.
Similarly, claiming that Jesus, Abraham, Moses, Aaron and others were Muslim in the modern understanding of the word is absurd. A basic reading of the NT shows Jesus was Jewish.
But to answer the OP, God allows Islam, as he allows all man-made religions and false idols, because we have been given the freewill to see good and evil, and to choose between them.
Let me clear. Islam, the specific religion, is the religion of Mohammed, which began around 600 A.D. Mohammed came from a tribe in, iirc, Northern Arabia that traced it’s roots directly back to Abraham/Ishmael. They were their own clan who believed in one invisible God. The same God as the Jews and the Christians. If they had a name, and I imagine they did, I don’t remember it.
Mohammed, whatever you think of him, did a great thing by uniting the tribes, and establishing the religion of one true God. The idea that God “allowed” this might be less accurate than that He planned and facilitated it. His ways are not our ways.
But Islam is directly contrary to Christianity: the two religions are mutually exclusive. God can’t change his tune in the fashion which is required by your hypothesis–either Jesus was the second person of the trinity incarnate, or he was a human prophet (whose message is barely talked about in the Qur’an) sent by God to teach unitarianism. It can’t have been blasphemous for humans not to worship Jesus from A.D. 30 to 610 but blasphemous for them to do so from 611 onward.
Please read this book chapter (despite the attention-grabbing title, it isn’t some uninformed diatribe).
That makes it clearer to me, that his clan and he himself believed in the Abrahamic God prior to the formation of Islam. That was my only point. I thought it strange a religion, which is so large and also respected by the CC, could have been formed ‘from no prior knowledge of God, so to speak’, after Christ’s death, i.e. that they would ignore Christ’s death and set up a new religion recognising only the Abrahamic God.
However, this would indicate (to me) that Islam is similar to Judaism, in that they did not recognise Christ as God’s son.
God did not plan or facilitate or have any hand in setting up a false religion. Any spirit that denies Christ is not the spirit of God.
But they didn’t believe in the Abrahamic God before Muhammad. Allah was the highest deity in the pre-Islamic Arab pagan pantheon. The same term was simply adapted to describe the Abrahamic God with the rise of Islam. Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians also address and refer to the one true God by the term Allah. (Cf. “Ya qaddisa Maryam, Waalidat Allah, Salli li ajlinaa…” means “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us…”)
That was my only point. I thought it strange a religion, which is so large and also respected by the CC, could have been formed ‘from no prior knowledge of God, so to speak’, after Christ’s death, i.e. that they would ignore Christ’s death and set up a new religion recognising only the Abrahamic God.
That is indeed strange, and damages Islam’s credibility severely.
However, this would indicate (to me) that Islam is similar to Judaism, in that they did not recognise Christ as God’s son.
Islam came after Judaism and Christianity. Some Muslims seem to claim–anachronistically, of course–that Adam, Abraham, David, Moses, and Jesus were Muslim. I’ve seen one Muslim on CAF, however, avoid this pitfall in Muslim historical analysis by saying that these prophets were simply following God as best they could with the knowledge they had, rather than actually being Muslim in the present-day sense of the term.