Why did God change his mind for isreal kings?


#1

Deuteronomy 17:14*
When you come to the land that theLordyour God is giving you, and you possess it and dwell in it and then say,‘I will set a king over me, like all the nations that are around me,’you may indeed set a king over youawhom theLordyour God will choose. One*from among your brothers you shall set as king over you. You may not put a foreigner over you, who is not your brother

seems God was open for isreal to have a king compare this to 1 samuel 8 were the tone changed saying the isrealites rejected God as their king


#2

God gives us what we ask for, whether it’s what best for us or not. God did not desire for Israel to have a king, he wanted them to be a holy and faithful people who lived according to His tenants and held God as their sovereign. Unfortunately, as with most of humanity, the decided that they knew better than God, and so he granted them the king they desired, and all the evil he told them would happen under a king came to pass. God didn’t make it come to pass, he tried to dissuade them from a king, but they wouldn’t listen. It’s not that God’s mind changed, that’s impossible; he warned them against a king and they didn’t listen, so he granted them their wish even knowing that it would only cause problems. That’s the danger of free will >_>


#3

However, God took Israel’s desire for a king over keeping God as their direct sovereign, and turned that around to his own ends in Jesus, our God and Christ and heir to the kingdom he allowed the Israelites to establish.


#4

Hi :slight_smile:

Could you say a bit more about the bold part? That doesn’t seem to really fit with my understanding or experience.


#5

I guess a better way of putting it would be that he doesn’t impede us from doing something stupid. He desires what is best for us, but will not force us to actually -do- what is best for us.


#6

Thanks, that makes more sense - God doesn’t stop us doing something stupid through free will :slight_smile:

I was just thinking that if God gave us everything we wanted, I should be living in a mansion made of cake by now :smiley:


#7

God preferred they have no king over them but Himself but here he is telling them that if they decide to have a king, they should choose a kinsman, an Israelite, for their king rather than a non-Israelite.


#8

God HAD set up HIS form of Governance; the Judges, but the nation wanted to be “like everyone else” with Kings, so God permitted it, knowing that it would cause unnecessay hardships on the Chosen Nation


#9

It must be remembered that in Deuteronomy, Jesus does not appear or speak in a theophany, but, instead, delegates authority to Moses to not only speak what He has revealed, but also to go beyond it in order to give further penitential and symbolic laws to the people in order to, again, keep them quarantined from idolatry. Think of it this way, the golden calf incident prevented every firstborn father and son from serving as priestly assistants within the Temple, and, therefore, gave us the Book of Leviticus with many symbolic laws. The rebellion of Korah and the later sins of the spies and the idolatry of Baal Peor only made things worse. God, therefore, no longer appeared to them. According to Ezekiel, he gave Moses permission to give them “laws that were not good,” such as collecting interest from gentiles only and herem warfare.

With this background, we could say that Deureronomy was given to establish Israel, for the most part, as a secular nation state, just like the other nations around them…no longer as a royal priestly one for sake of bringing the gentiles into relationship with God (this vocation they lost after the calf). Now, if we keep in mind that everything after the calf was to quarantine any threat or temptation to idolatry, it may seem odd that Jesus would accept Moses’ decision to accommodate the Israelite interest in having a king, especially since God alone is King whom they now serve, and no longer is pharaoh king. Earthly kings were considered to be “living images,” aka sons of the gods, bearers of their authority, and this also has a connection to idols being considered “images” of gods. But it must also be remembered that the Israelites could not avoid all possible contact with their gentile neighbours, and, without a king of their own, they would have been tempted to accept gentile kings, and the idolatry that would accompany this, just like they did within Egypt. Interestingly, however, God promised long before in Genesis that “the seed of the woman” (the concept of the true Son of Adam to come, who was later revealed, within Daniel, to be Divine) would crush the serpent’s head, that God would establish a kingly dynasty through Abraham, as well as a promise, through the true Son of Abraham, to establish a world wide, international blessing (contrast this to the Tower of Babel kingly idolatry incident), and that the “scepter would not depart from Judah” until this King comes. Solomon, called the small “m” messiah, or anointed one, in his own role and person, brought back everything that the Israelites lost because of the calf…he is priestly and offers up actual sacrifices, he is royal, he transforms the nation of Israel into an international covenant with the gentiles, he welcomes the gentiles to teach them the truth and wisdom of the true God. God even promises to “raise up,” when David is long dead, one of his sons with a Kingdom that will be forever (leading to the conclusion that this King to come must be Divine and Immortal, even Eternal). But what happened to the fulfilment of the Torah that was the Davidic Covenant? What happened to the covenant promises? Such a longing formed the basis of the eschatological hopes within the prophets, as well as within the apocalyptic literature of Second Temple Judaism for the coming of the true and capital “M” Messiah.

In light of all of this, it only makes sense that there is an tension between Samuel and Moses’ understanding and approach. The people, after all, were hard-hearted in idolatry and disobedient. Jesus, the same God within the Old Testament, comes and truly fulfils the understanding that God alone is King and as well as the fact that Davidic Kings were the “Sons of God.” This is perfectly understood in light of the Christological teaching that Christ is a Divine Person with our one shared human nature and the One Shared Divine Nature (shared with the Father and the Holy Spirit).


#10

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the Davidic Covenant, within the Old Testament roughly a thousand years before Jesus’ incarnation was a failure. David sinned greatly with Bathsheba, and this plagued his later reign. Solomon started out good, but later, because of his many wives (for the purpose of making covenants with the gentile nations) was led into idolatry by them, or, at least, syncretism. Solomon’s successor divided Israel into two separated kingdoms (Israel to the north and Judah to the south). The northern kingdom was lost by being assimilated with gentiles through forced breeding (the 10 lost tribes) by Assyria. Finally, Judah went into exile in Babylon, but Babylon made sure to wipe out, as far as possible the line of David. Davidic successors survived this (for example, Zerubabel) but Judah remained under the thumb of successive gentile world powers, and were kept from restoring the Davidic Kingship and Kingdom. Jesus did what seemed impossible, by fulfilling the prophecy of being raised up into the true heavenly Kingdom to reign for ever (1 Sam 7), as well as to bring the lost 10 tribes back…as gentiles, they would became Christians.


#11

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