Why did she say this? It drives me crazy!


#1

ok so ever since i started RCIA my grandma has been super upset with me only she tries not to show it. anyway so the other night me and her were having a very heated discussion (she is Pentecostal-i used to be too) anyway so i was explaining Christ in the Eucharist and how He was truly present. I said something along the lines of"Catholics are the only ones who believe this" (by the way i i know LCMS and Orthodox,Episcopals do too) and she got sooooo mad!! she said that she also believed that Jesus was present in her own communion (not the Eucharist) i explained to her that her own church teaches that the grape juice and crackers are symbolic in pentecostalism. she said that its not about my religion but my own beliefs. what do i do??? i need help.


#2

[quote="MaeganFlinchum1, post:1, topic:302606"]
ok so ever since i started RCIA my grandma has been super upset with me only she tries not to show it. anyway so the other night me and her were having a very heated discussion (she is Pentecostal-i used to be too) anyway so i was explaining Christ in the Eucharist and how He was truly present. I said something along the lines of"Catholics are the only ones who believe this" (by the way i i know LCMS and Orthodox,Episcopals do too) and she got sooooo mad!! she said that she also believed that Jesus was present in her own communion (not the Eucharist) i explained to her that her own church teaches that the grape juice and crackers are symbolic in pentecostalism. she said that its not about my religion but my own beliefs. what do i do??? i need help.

[/quote]

The first thing to accept is that you may never be able to get your grandmother to understand Catholic theology. If you can accept that it might bring you some peace. What you truly believe is not affected by your grandmother's beliefs. It is not important for your grandmother to understand Catholic theology for you to believe. To be ever able to convince her you need to discuss this in a calm and rational manner. A heated discussion tends to get people entrenched in their own point of view and no advantage is to be had from it. You should pray for your grandmother. A little help from the Holy Spirit can go a long way.


#3

I think that you are not being too nice to her. She is visibly upset by your development in faith; however, she tries not to show it. To me that means that she cares about you and she is trying to respect you. The way you describe your take on the Real Presence sounds just like a statement of fact and not the sharing of the special love that we have for the Eucharist. Such statements of fact are fine among Catholics but go against our fundamental belief to spread the truth with pure Christian love. I suggest that you educate yourself about the nuances of what our belief implies and to remember that we are not to put down other people beliefs but to show them why we know that ours are the truth. Once you pay attention to what the present pope said about the protestant churches then you will be more careful in addressing their shortcomings.


#4

[quote="Cristiano, post:3, topic:302606"]
I think that you are not being too nice to her. She is visibly upset by your development in faith; however, she tries not to show it. To me that means that she cares about you and she is trying to respect you. The way you describe your take on the Real Presence sounds just like a statement of fact and not the sharing of the special love that we have for the Eucharist. Such statements of fact are fine among Catholics but go against our fundamental belief to spread the truth with pure Christian love. I suggest that you educate yourself about the nuances of what our belief implies and to remember that we are not to put down other people beliefs but to show them why we know that ours are the truth. Once you pay attention to what the present pope said about the protestant churches then you will be more careful in addressing their shortcomings.

[/quote]

thank you. you are right. i do need to be nicer, and i will definetly work on that. now that i re read my post and your reply i see where i fall short in love. thanks very much :D


#5

[quote="Matthew_Holford, post:2, topic:302606"]
The first thing to accept is that you may never be able to get your grandmother to understand Catholic theology. If you can accept that it might bring you some peace. What you truly believe is not affected by your grandmother's beliefs. It is not important for your grandmother to understand Catholic theology for you to believe. To be ever able to convince her you need to discuss this in a calm and rational manner. A heated discussion tends to get people entrenched in their own point of view and no advantage is to be had from it. You should pray for your grandmother. A little help from the Holy Spirit can go a long way.

[/quote]

thank you. and your right! keep me in your prayers :)


#6

[quote="MaeganFlinchum1, post:4, topic:302606"]
thank you. you are right. i do need to be nicer, and i will definetly work on that. now that i re read my post and your reply i see where i fall short in love. thanks very much :D

[/quote]

You are much better than I am at listening to suggestions and at trying to change. Thanks for being a good model at such a young age.:)


#7

[quote="Cristiano, post:6, topic:302606"]
You are much better than I am at listening to suggestions and at trying to change. Thanks for being a good model at such a young age.:)

[/quote]

aww :o thank you. i know myself i havent been the nicest lately..


#8

I smiled when I read your posting; my own grandma and I had similar discussions more than 40 years ago. I think she is trying, very hard, to wrap her mind around what you are saying and believing and, in fact, tried to align her own beliefs with yours (the part in bold). And it didn’t go so well so she was frustrated and so were you. Because you understand her church’s theology, you can try to explain our beliefs using words and terms she understands; she doesn’t have that advantage.

Oh, and the best compliment I got from grandma was the day we talked about saints and Mary. After a long discussion on intercessions and honoring but not worshiping, she nodded her head and said, “I understand now, and it really does make sense. But do you think most Catholics know that?”

Bless you and your grandmother . . .


#9

[quote="IrishAm, post:8, topic:302606"]
I smiled when I read your posting; my own grandma and I had similar discussions more than 40 years ago. I think she is trying, very hard, to wrap her mind around what you are saying and believing and, in fact, tried to align her own beliefs with yours (the part in bold). And it didn't go so well so she was frustrated and so were you. Because you understand her church's theology, you can try to explain our beliefs using words and terms she understands; she doesn't have that advantage.

Oh, and the best compliment I got from grandma was the day we talked about saints and Mary. After a long discussion on intercessions and honoring but not worshiping, she nodded her head and said, "I understand now, and it really does make sense. But do you think most Catholics know that?"

Bless you and your grandmother . . .

[/quote]

Thanks!!! Haha im glad someone gets it!!! And my grandma actually has prayed to, and believes in praying to Mary :eek:


#10

[quote="MaeganFlinchum1, post:1, topic:302606"]
what do i do??? i need help.

[/quote]

Be respectful of your grandmother and her beliefs and do not try to correct her. Your faith is not deeper or better than hers.


#11

Just my 3 cents:

First and foremost is the idea that respect is absoutely paraomunt. She is not where you are theologically, ecclesiologically, or spiritually. That is neither good nore bad- it simply is.

Try thinking about your conversations with her like a bridge. You can build some of the bridge from your side, but you also need to build some of the bridge from her side. (she will, if really engaged, and it sounds like she is, will try to do the same.) Language will be a problem. You may use the same words and mean diffrent things. This is a problem with the abortion and death penalty debates- people will use the term "murder" in diffrent ways and they wind up talking past each other. So try to see language as an obstacle that needs to be recognized.

Second, one of the things that I have always tried to do, especially with less structured protestant churches, is to talk about communion and what it means. Ultimately, this is a question of how one understands the "Body of Christ." Are we in communion via the church institution- that is to say the people make up the Body of Christ- or are we in commuion because we consume the Body of Christ and that makes the church one? Catholics would recognize the former as part of their theology but that we take it a step further. Not only is there the....analogous "Body of Christ" but also the literal "Body of Christ." This is kind of a fast version of my ideas on this but if you need more please ask or if anyone wants to add/ correct me.

Ultimately, you have the right to say, "I dont know. Let me get back to you." Anslem has a dictum- Faith seeking understanding- as the model of the Christian. Hopefully we can all find some understanding. :)

Good luck.


#12

[quote="Franciscanguy, post:11, topic:302606"]
Just my 3 cents:

First and foremost is the idea that respect is absoutely paraomunt. She is not where you are theologically, ecclesiologically, or spiritually. That is neither good nore bad- it simply is.

Try thinking about your conversations with her like a bridge. You can build some of the bridge from your side, but you also need to build some of the bridge from her side. (she will, if really engaged, and it sounds like she is, will try to do the same.) Language will be a problem. You may use the same words and mean diffrent things. This is a problem with the abortion and death penalty debates- people will use the term "murder" in diffrent ways and they wind up talking past each other. So try to see language as an obstacle that needs to be recognized.

Second, one of the things that I have always tried to do, especially with less structured protestant churches, is to talk about communion and what it means. Ultimately, this is a question of how one understands the "Body of Christ." Are we in communion via the church institution- that is to say the people make up the Body of Christ- or are we in commuion because we consume the Body of Christ and that makes the church one? Catholics would recognize the former as part of their theology but that we take it a step further. Not only is there the....analogous "Body of Christ" but also the literal "Body of Christ." This is kind of a fast version of my ideas on this but if you need more please ask or if anyone wants to add/ correct me.

Ultimately, you have the right to say, "I dont know. Let me get back to you." Anslem has a dictum- Faith seeking understanding- as the model of the Christian. Hopefully we can all find some understanding. :)

Good luck.

[/quote]

thanks i hadnt thought of it that way


#13

[quote="Julia_Mae, post:10, topic:302606"]
Be respectful of your grandmother and her beliefs and do not try to correct her. Your faith is not deeper or better than hers.

[/quote]

and i am trying to respect her, and i did not say my faith was deeper, or "better" than hers


#14

[quote="MaeganFlinchum1, post:1, topic:302606"]
ok so ever since i started RCIA my grandma has been super upset with me only she tries not to show it. anyway so the other night me and her were having a very heated discussion (she is Pentecostal-i used to be too) anyway so i was explaining Christ in the Eucharist and how He was truly present. I said something along the lines of"Catholics are the only ones who believe this" (by the way i i know LCMS and Orthodox,Episcopals do too) and she got sooooo mad!! she said that she also believed that Jesus was present in her own communion (not the Eucharist) i explained to her that her own church teaches that the grape juice and crackers are symbolic in pentecostalism. she said that its not about my religion but my own beliefs. what do i do??? i need help.

[/quote]

Be patient little one. If she believes Christ is present then she is expressing a deep desire for Christ's real presence. She may be open to the Faith herself but because of her education and life long religious affiliation she harbors many deep prejudices against the Church.
As a factual matter you are correct, Christ is not present in her communions. She cannot make him really present, though he may be present spiritually for her, she may be making " spiritual communions. " This is a good thing. However, only a validly ordained priest can make Christ Present in the sacred species. So you are right on the technical side. Christ is not Present, body and blood, soul, and Divinity in her communions.

Learn all you can about the Faith, you may be able to help her later on. :thumbsup:


#15

[quote="Linusthe2nd, post:14, topic:302606"]
Be patient little one. If she believes Christ is present then she is expressing a deep desire for Christ's real presence. She may be open to the Faith herself but because of her education and life long religious affiliation she harbors many deep prejudices against the Church.
As a factual matter you are correct, Christ is not present in her communions. She cannot make him really present, though he may be present spiritually for her, she may be making " spiritual communions. " This is a good thing. However, only a validly ordained priest can make Christ Present in the sacred species. So you are right on the technical side. Christ is not Present, body and blood, soul, and Divinity in her communions.

Learn all you can about the Faith, you may be able to help her later on. :thumbsup:

[/quote]

THANK YOU! This was exactly what I was trying to express. I think that because she is trying to make (in her mind) Jesus present in her communions, then this must mean she yearns for Him in her heart (The Eucharist). thanks so much for this answer! that was exactly what I was trying to say


#16

Actually, I can understand you being upset but none of us can tell another what we believe about the Communion. If your grandma believes that Jesus is present in the Eucharist, whatever form the Eucharist is in, then she has that right to believe that the same as you have the right to believe that Jesus is present in the Eucharist that you parttake in. The people at her church may or mayn’t teach that, but, your grandma can believe what she actually believes and no one can take that away from her and if you are very wise, you will give her an apology and it be hard I know, but what we believe can be different to what the Church in each case, teaches. So what you can do, is humbly apologising for being heated in the matter and learn to accept that she is entitled to her believe, regardless of what her church may teach. I am sorry its upset you and its a learning curve that we are all on, to realise that what we believe with God may be different from each other. For examply, how you pray and how I pray are both accepted and valid ways within the teaching of the Church both completely different, may be and for another to tell either of us are wrong is wrong in itself just because they may have had one teaching from Priests. It just means that that has worked for them and the Priest hasn’t had to find another way that works but well within church teachings.
She said it because she believes it. Regardless of what she may have been taught by the church. She believes it and you or I or anyone can’t say she is wrong because we can’t be wrong in our believes though it may be against church teaching. Thats different. I am not trying to answer for her or anything, just simply trying to say why she may have said it. It not to wind you up. In time you may understand her more. But no one can tell another they are wrong in what they believe whether we like it or not.
Peace be with you and take care :slight_smile:


#17

[quote="englishredrose, post:16, topic:302606"]
Actually, I can understand you being upset but none of us can tell another what we believe about the Communion. If your grandma believes that Jesus is present in the Eucharist, whatever form the Eucharist is in, then she has that right to believe that the same as you have the right to believe that Jesus is present in the Eucharist that you parttake in. The people at her church may or mayn't teach that, but, your grandma can believe what she actually believes and no one can take that away from her and if you are very wise, you will give her an apology and it be hard I know, but what we believe can be different to what the Church in each case, teaches. So what you can do, is humbly apologising for being heated in the matter and learn to accept that she is entitled to her believe, regardless of what her church may teach. I am sorry its upset you and its a learning curve that we are all on, to realise that what we believe with God may be different from each other. For examply, how you pray and how I pray are both accepted and valid ways within the teaching of the Church both completely different, may be and for another to tell either of us are wrong is wrong in itself just because they may have had one teaching from Priests. It just means that that has worked for them and the Priest hasn't had to find another way that works but well within church teachings.

She said it because she believes it. Regardless of what she may have been taught by the church. She believes it and you or I or anyone can't say she is wrong because we can't be wrong in our believes though it may be against church teaching. Thats different. I am not trying to answer for her or anything, just simply trying to say why she may have said it. It not to wind you up. In time you may understand her more. But no one can tell another they are wrong in what they believe whether we like it or not.

Peace be with you and take care :)

[/quote]

thank you, i guess that is kinda true. though hard to accept. hmmm if we get on the topic again maybe i will apologize


#18

Try to let things go. You know that you and she are not going to agree so try to make peace with her and agree to disagree. There is a time and a place for a debate, but what you should do is live the holiness that God is calling you to and try not to get into rancourous arguments. good luck I will pray for you - :signofcross::signofcross::signofcross:


#19

[quote="MaeganFlinchum1, post:17, topic:302606"]
thank you, i guess that is kinda true. though hard to accept. hmmm if we get on the topic again maybe i will apologize

[/quote]

you will get there. :)


#20

1 Corinthians 11:27-29. It's in the Bible.. That simple.


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