Why didn't God just give Hitler a heart attack?


#1

No one would have known and what horror it could have prevented.

i mean a few strategically placed attacks could have helped since single individuals did so much harm.

Hitler, Stalin, Mao,etc.


#2

Hitler had no heart


#3

[quote="MTKM, post:2, topic:281329"]
Hitler had no heart

[/quote]

:D


#4

Well, then why not give me or anyone who has ever gravely sinned a heart attack as well? In fact why stop there? All sin is pretty horrific from God’s POV, so why not all of us?


#5

Heck, given the logic of the Hitler heart attack, why doesn’t God just kill everybody right after baptism, allowing them to reach Heaven in a state of sinlessness.


#6

Who’d be around long enough to do the baptizing then? :smiley:


#7

Fascism, communism, and every other bloody 20th-century -ism are the products of a long, long series of intellectual errors.

Why should man be shielded from his errors? He embraced unreason and falsehood and rejected God. He should be allowed to suffer the consequences of his errors, that they might perhaps drive him to repentance.


#8

[quote="Pat_Payne, post:6, topic:281329"]
Who'd be around long enough to do the baptizing then? :D

[/quote]

Ok, you have a point there, lol. But the comparison still serves a point.


#9

Tell the millions of people murdered by Nazis that they deserved it because they “embraced unreason and falsehood and rejected God.” I am seriously disgusted by what you just said there.


#10

[quote="Poseidon, post:9, topic:281329"]
Tell the millions of people murdered by Nazis that they deserved it because they "embraced unreason and falsehood and rejected God." I am seriously disgusted by what you just said there.

[/quote]

Whether individual people "deserve" anything has nothing to do with this. I'm not a nominalist, anyway, so I reject the proposition implicit in your post that humanity is reducible to its individual constituents as morally and philosophically unsound.

The issue here is what kind of order of being we would be living in if evil were allowed, in principle, to result in anything but more evil. That is the nature of evil after all: as Augustine wrote, evil is its own punishment. It couldn't be otherwise. Objecting to it is literally objecting to the way reality is; it's psychosis.


#11

[quote="Poseidon, post:9, topic:281329"]
Tell the millions of people murdered by Nazis that they deserved it because they "embraced unreason and falsehood and rejected God." I am seriously disgusted by what you just said there.

[/quote]

While I can understand your revulsion here I must say that is shows a (common) outlook that seems to ignore the afterlife.

Those "murdered by Nazi's" went to reward or damnation based on their righteousness. The same is true for soldiers killed in the wars etc.

Every person who dies, no matter where, when, or how, is judged and if judged righteous, they achieve eternal life.

If we believe - truly believe in an afterlife then this is how we must view these matters.
Those who had embraced unreason and falsehood and rejected God went where their the chose to go and those who embraced reason and Truth and God went where they chose to go.

So in truth, each individual DID get what they deserved... after they died.

And I think that this view is important to the OP as well. God is not concerned so much with preventing a Hitler because God does not think in such short, finite terms as we do.

Hitler or no Hitler, Stalin or no Stalin, Earthquake or no earthquake, volcano or not volcano, car accident or no car accident....each person will die at some appointed time and then they will be judged - individually - and receive their just reward.

Just my 2 cents

Peace
James


#12

The funny thing about this topic and its replies is something my father, who was a WW I German Army veteran, once said. He considered the worst enemy of civilization was neither Hitler or Stalin. To him, it was Woodrow Wilson because of his naiveity and political ineptitude during and after the Versailles treaty negotiations.
His allowing the British and French to wreak vengance upon the German people supported Boleshivism in Germany and led directly to the rise of Hitler, and ultimately the Second World War.
It is interesting that there are many historians and political academicians are coming around to this viewpoint today.


#13

There was a good speech from St. Leonard of Port Maurice on the nature of God’s mercy. The gist of it was: He could’ve cast each and every one of us into Hell after our first mortal sin and we would have no basis to complain about it. He’s done it before, after all (think of anyone in the Old Testament killed directly by God for a sin). Justice demands as much, so thankfully for us our God is not solely a God of justice. We certainly would have no basis to complain.

But He didn’t damn us all. When we sin, He has ways of making us realize it. He sends us a sickness that we might realize our frailty and turn to Him, and it seems we will surely die; but to demonstrate His goodness, He heals us, and still we rebel. He gives us a year to repent of our errors, and when that year is up and our heart is even harder, He gives us yet another.

God allows evil to result from evil precisely because He is good: because He wants us to understand this fact, that to be chosen and loved by God brings eternal happiness and eternal life and that to reject Him is suffering and misery and eternal death. I suspect this is why the idea is gaining in popularity that Hell is less a sentence than it is a consequence, that Hell is not where you go when you reject God but what you become.


#14

[quote="itullian, post:1, topic:281329"]
No one would have known and what horror it could have prevented.

[/quote]

Or God could have just, you know, nudged a few hearts and minds so they would have excepted him into art school. Seriously, look at these paintings: 3.bp.blogspot.com/_mmBw3uzPnJI/TM66_oJo8UI/AAAAAAABtlw/cudhZnBSM3M/s400/Adolf_Hitlers_Paintings_12.jpg

i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01725/HitlerPicture_1725391c.jpg

Maybe he would have been a famous artist instead of the world's most infamous political leader.


#15

you make me shiver with this unbelievable response. equating the man on the street who sins with Hitler!!!
that’s where bad theology leads.

man,oh man

and you others saying it doesn’t matter cause we all die.

what about the terror,suffering, families, children that will never be born

you guys seem to be able to rationalize ANYTHING.

all sin is horrific my a–.


#16

[quote="itullian, post:15, topic:281329"]
you make me shiver with this unbelievable response. equating the man on the street who sins with Hitler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...

all sin is horrific my a--.

[/quote]

All sin is horrific. All sin is an affront to God. True, some sin leads to death and some does not, but that is about as fine a line that has ever been drawn.

Part of problems we have today is that we have attached degrees to wrong doing. A murderer is worse than a rapist. Thiefing is better than adultery. In reality, it's all bad, all of it. It's all offensive.

The corollary to this is that we can all be forgiven. Hitler could have walked in any confessional and sought forgiveness. And if he was sincere, we would have gotten it.


#17

i’m sorry. all sin is not horrific. it’s a sin.

i want no part of a God who hasn’t the sense to see the difference.


#18

Itullian:

God gives people heart attacks when He’s ready to. Why He wants some to come to Him sooner rather than later will always be unknown to us. And, by this I mean the six million Jews and the couple million Catholics. He wanted them, so He took them.

It’s amazing, when we look around, how some people have responded to such a large murdering rampage. My tendency is to think that Adolph is spending Eternity wandering in utter darkness and emptiness, but that’s not my call. Ultimately, I MUST forgive him.

Hitler was born a Christian (Catholic, if I remember correctly), so I presume that he was baptized. This means that he may well be amongst the elect. In terms of where his soul might be right now, the worst stain on him was his final mortal sin, i.e., his suicide. But, we still can’t say that he is in Hell. Nor can we pray for anything other than his quick release from purgatory. The ways of God are not our ways. And, like the good soldier, ours is not to reason why - it is but to do or . . . .

Remember Christ’s commands, “You shall love God with all your heart, soul, and strength; and, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Seems strange, I know. But, that’s what makes us Christian. :thumbsup:

God bless,
jd


#19

[quote="itullian, post:1, topic:281329"]
No one would have known and what horror it could have prevented.

i mean a few strategically placed attacks could have helped since single individuals did so much harm.

Hitler, Stalin, Mao,etc.

[/quote]

Are you questioning the wisdom of God?


#20

[quote="itullian, post:15, topic:281329"]
you make me shiver with this unbelievable response. equating the man on the street who sins with Hitler!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that's where bad theology leads.

man,oh man

and you others saying it doesn't matter cause we all die.

what about the terror,suffering, families, children that will never be born

you guys seem to be able to rationalize ANYTHING.

all sin is horrific my a--.

[/quote]

Wow....you have a lot to learn. And believe me when I say, I do not mean that in a rude way.

This is a common misconception in society that hell is only for really bad people, like murderers, rapist, etc. But sin is sin...and none of us deserve heaven, its only by the Grace of God that will we make it there.

You are playing a very dangerous game when you start deciding that you are more worthy of heaven then the next guy. Only God decides..


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