Why didn't Jesus ever call himself God?


#1

I read some verses about supposed proofs that Jesus did not correct anyone when they called Him God or Son of God. But from a non-Christian point of view and a especially from a muslim point of view these verses are more in favour of their side. Jesus said He is the Son of God but weren’t all isrealites sons of God? The Bible verses are unclear and when you look them from a muslim point of view they make more sense to me than if i look at them from a Christian point of view. Im currently searching for the truth about all this(altough im still a Catholic) and my heart is drawing me to Christianity but now the reason part is in doubt(you need both reason and Holy Spirit to find the truth). But according to the Bible heart is deceitful. But i am not being drawn to Islam whatsoever. But i am being drawn to Christianity. Is this only sentimental? Why didn’t Jesus made it clearer that He is God? Im not talking about Paul,… im talking about the Gospels. Please help.


#2

Tim,

Is there anyway for you to get on Paltalk where I can open my room and we can discuss this thoroughly? If so then email me at sam.shmn@gmail.com.


#3

John 8

Then the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”[k] 58 Jesus said to them,* “Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.”** 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.*

Exodus 3

But Moses said to God, “If I come to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” 14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.”[a] He said further, “Thus you shall say to the Israelites, ‘I am has sent me to you.’” *** 15 God also said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord,** the God of your ancestors, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you’:**

This is my name forever,
and this my title for all generations
.

The Jews present when Jesus told them he existed before Abraham and referred to himself as “I am” understood that Jesus was using God’s name to refer to himself. That is why they tried to stone him for blasphemy.*


#4

Matt.11[27] All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

This is but one verse in which Jesus identifies himself as the Divine Son. When he preached and taught he often referred to himself in the third person or as “The Son of Man”, meaning that he was claiming to be the Second Adam, the perfect man who would redeem mankind. He did this to ease the Israelites into accepting his mission and teachings. Just claiming to be the Messiah was enough to get him stoned on more than one occasion. He couldn’t allow himself to be taken that way when he knew he had to fulfill Scripture and die in the manner spoken of him in the Prophets. He was more direct about who he was with his disciples, but not generally with the Scribes and Pharisees who were looking for reasons to condemn him.


#5

There is this too:

John 10

22 At that time the festival of the Dedication took place in Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the portico of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah,* tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered, “I have told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name testify to me; 26 but you do not believe, because you do not belong to my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice. I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 What my Father has given me is greater than all else, and no one can snatch it out of the Father’s hand.[c] 30 The Father and I are one.”**

31 The Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus replied, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these are you going to stone me?” 33 **The Jews answered, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you, but for blasphemy, because you, though only a human being, are making yourself God.” **34 Jesus answered, “Is it not written in your law,[d] ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If those to whom the word of God came were called ‘gods’—and the scripture cannot be annulled— 36 can you say that the one whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world is blaspheming because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me. 38 **But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand[e] that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” **39 Then they tried to arrest him again, but he escaped from their hands.

Again, Jesus declares that he and the Father are One. He points out that the Jews in the audience have no problem saying others are "gods" under the wording of the Law, but reject Jesus' claim despite the signs he has given them.

Really, I would read all of the Gospel of John if you want to see how Jesus describes his relationship with God. His claims of being God were clear enough that the Jews of his day accused him of just this, and tried have him arrested and stoned for blasphemy.*


#6

I often repeat myself here, if Jesus was not God than He was a blasphemer. No regular man could make the claims that He made.

Also, the Muslim argument that Jesus never claimed to be God is not only untrue, but it's unfair. I love talking to Muslims because the uneducated ones always say, "show me where in the Bible Jesus claims to be God." After a long lecture on how silly the question is, they normally ask me why it's so silly. To that I reply, "show me one Gospel where Jesus doesn't die and resurrect." They have no choice to fall back and claim corruption, rendering their original argument void.

Anyways, I'll add two more:

Matthew 18:19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them. "

Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last,

18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

Do I even need to bring up Trinitarian baptism?

I'll conclude with what I said at first and have said numerous times. If Jesus wasn't God than He was blaspheming.


#7

Jesus said that he was greater than the Temple. The only thing greater than the temple was God who dwelt in the Temple.

Jesus said that he was Lord of the Sabbath. The only one who could be Lord of the Sabbath is God who created the sabbath and gave it to man.

Jesus' breathing on someone would have been a crystal clear sign that he is God for Jews who understood the Hebrew scriptures and understood the Hebrew word for breath - ruah.

The Jews would have understood Jesus' walking on water this way. Moses, Joshuah and Elisha parted the water and walked through it but Jesus walked on it. Similarly, Jesus' statement to the Samaritan woman that he would give her water would have been clear that he was claiming to be God to anyone who understood the Biblical metaphors of water, life, etc.

There are many, many more references like this, but we have to think like first century Jews to be able to hear past the words we read.

-Tim-


#8

Jesus' claim to be light is a claim to be God.

**As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world*. (John 9:5)

I have come as light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. (John 12:46)*

Jesus claims to be light many times in John's Gospel. In the book of Revelation it says that God will be the light.

**And night shall be no more; they need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they shall reign for ever and ever. (Revelation 22:5)

In the beginning of the Bible God separated light from darkness on the first day but creates the sun on the fourth day. How can there be light for three days without sun? This is because God himself is the light.

When Jesus says, "I am light" it is a very Jewish way of saying "I am God".

-Tim-


#9

If Jesus said "I am God" one of two things would have happened.
A Jew believing him would fall down before him in reverence before God and not get up.
A Jew disbelieving him would refuse to listen to him any longer and probably would want him done away with then.
So Jesus said such things as "I am the Father are one" (John 10:30), which spoke of this in a way that did not provoke immediately these two reactions.


#10

Jesus also did not say he wasn't God. I don't think He ever said Obama was president, but I could be wrong on that one, too ;)

Honestly, even if He showed up at a mosque and said "Hi, I'm Jesus and I am God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit" they'd still deny it. The question isn't why didn't He use the exact words "swear to God, bro, I'm God" but why those people who choose not to believe choose not to believe even when it's pointed out how Jesus declared His divinity.


#11

Same goes for the Catholic Church. If it really isn’t the one true church, that would be blasphemy as well, would it not?:shrug:


#12

Jesus said on several occasions in other words that he was God. The use of “I am”, especially.

What he never claimed to be , and rightfully so, was God the Father.


#13

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:11, topic:338995"]
Same goes for the Catholic Church. If it really isn't the one true church, that would be blasphemy as well, would it not?:shrug:

[/quote]

You could try to make that argument in another thread, but what I'm saying is that Muhammad would have never said the things that Jesus said. Jesus claimed that He was building His own Church. There's too many passages to quote, and that's why I say it's a waste since Muslims believe the text is corrupt anyways.


#14

Here are a couple of more. Jesus made Himself equal to God which is blasphemy if it is not true. Demonstrating Himself to be in fact God.

John 5:18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Matt 26:63-66 The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”
64“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”e
65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66What do you think?”
“He is worthy of death,” they answered.

John 10:23-25 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24Then came the Jews round about him, and said to him, How long do you make us to doubt? If you be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25Jesus answered them, I told you, and you believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.


#15

Well, when He said "Before Abraham was, I AM" He was saying it. Some modern audiences might not understand that He was saying it because we speak differently, but the ancient Jews knew what He meant and were outraged (because they didn't believe Him). In fact, He had to get very sneaky so as not to get stoned, in order to complete His ministry to the appointed time.

Also, remember the story of the Gospel of Matthew when the Jesus walked on water? An often overlooked passage from 14:33 is that they fell down and worshipped Him. Some bibles say "adored Him", others say "did Him homage." My point is that if He were not God, He would not have permitted that.


#16

[quote="jericho777, post:14, topic:338995"]

Matt 26:63-66 The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”
64“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”e
65Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66What do you think?”
“He is worthy of death,” they answered.

[/quote]

Here's the Prophecy that Jesus was quoting as well:

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

It makes sense that even if the Jews believed what Jesus said, there is no way He could possibly die on the cross... Look:

Matthew 27:43He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.'"

Psalm 22:7All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads. "He trusts in the LORD," they say, "let the LORD rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him."

Also:

Luke 23:35The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, "He saved others; let him save himself if he is God's Messiah, the Chosen One."

37and said, "If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself."

Matthew 27:42"He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself! He's the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.


#17

Christ was Crucified because He called Himself God (among other political reasons), which was blasphemy had it been said by anyone else.

61 "But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said to him: 'Art thou the Christ the Son of the blessed God?'
62 And Jesus said to him: "I am. And you shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of the power of God, and coming with the clouds of heaven.'
63 Then the high priest rending his garments, saith: 'What need we any further witnesses?
64 You have heard the blasphemy. What think you?' Who all condemned him to be guilty of death."

Mark 14:61-4 DRB (emphasis mine).

To say that He never called Himself God is to domesticate His Crucifixion.


#18

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:28-29)

Thomas calls Jesus “my God,” and Jesus does not correct him, but commends him: “because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed.”


#19

[quote="QNDNNDQDCE, post:18, topic:338995"]
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:28-29)

Thomas calls Jesus "my God," and Jesus does not correct him, but commends him: "because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed."

[/quote]

I wonder if blind people can claim the verse "Blessed is he WHO HAS NOT SEEN but has believed?":shrug:


#20

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