why didn't the EF mass just get translated into English?


#1

Before I started attending the EF Mass, I just kind of assumed that the OF was a wholesale translation of the EF. So I was pretty surprised to find that parts of the EF are not in the OF at all. (like the Judica Me at the beginning, for example). I have been curious for quite a while as to why the the EF wasn’t simply translated into English and used in vernacular celebration of the liturgy. Answers/thoughts much appreciated!


#2

The Novus Ordo was never about language, it was about ecumenism. Archbishop Bugnini explained it best when he said we had to remove every shadow of a stumbling block from the mass to help our separated brethren (read protestants.) The Novus Ordo down plays the sacrificial nature of the mass in order to make protestants happy. It is not easy to hear, but unfortunately it is true.


#3

Do the missals not have both Latin and English so people can follow the EF Mass?


#4

Also Latin-Spanish and I have a Latin-Polish missalette I put together.

And we can use all of them at the same Mass. :thumbsup:


#5

When the change over occurred at my home parish that is exactly what DID happen. The Pauline mass did not arrive for a couple of more years.

As for the various changes etc…as kids we were told that the “new mass” eliminated a lot of unnecessary repetition in the “old mass”…That’s what the sister’s told us. :shrug:

Peace
James


#6

The Judica Me plus the Last Gospel were removed in 1964 well before the OF.


#7

The truth hurts


#8

Also eliminated the need for all those translations into 500 vernaculars. :slight_smile:


#9

Dietrich von Hildebrand wrote that almost three-quarters of the old prayers were replaced with entirely new ones before translation ever occurred. When I discovered the traditional Mass, I fell in love with the old prayers, and would love them in any language.

It seems that the group entrusted with reforming the Mass in the late sixties did not go about it with a very Catholic mindset. There are two books about it. One from the leader’s point of view, one from a priest who was part of the committee and who disagreed with the speed with which it was done. I’ll look up the names of them tomorrow if I can and post them here.


#10

[quote="Crimsonflyboy, post:2, topic:296923"]
The Novus Ordo was never about language, it was about ecumenism. Archbishop Bugnini explained it best when he said we had to remove every shadow of a stumbling block from the mass to help our separated brethren (read protestants.) The Novus Ordo down plays the sacrificial nature of the mass in order to make protestants happy. It is not easy to hear, but unfortunately it is true.

[/quote]

Thanks! :highprayer:


#11

Because the OF Mass is an improvement on the EF Mass.

There are things that are tangibly better with the OF than the EF. How the OF Mass facilitates insight into the word of God through additional exposure and homilies focused on the readings is a huge improvement.


#12

If the EF was translated into English and allowed to be celebrated that way–how widespread would it become in 5 years?

Would there be more of it or more of the EF in Latin if both were allowed?


#13

Any response would be pure speculation based upon nothing.


#14

Proof, please. And please do not use the usual out-of-context quote that everyone tosses about.

Further, please explain how centuries after the reformation the Church magically decided to say “hey, lets appease this entire group of people!”


#15

This kind of comment about the OF is against forum rules.


#16

:confused:

Not been my experience at all. In fact, the exact opposite.

I’ll never go to the OF again… ever. I’ll drive across country, sleep on the ground and go hungry to do so to have the TLM. In fact, it would not be hyperbole to say I’d starve to death to retain access to the TLM. I wouldn’t go to the OF again if it came with $1000 cash each time I walked in the door, a 5-star level meal afterwards, and was a 2 minute drive!

The lack of prayers and the type of prayers retained are absolutely deficient to understand the Mass as a Sacrifice in the OF. As a former Protestant, I saw nothing different in the OF other than the Eucharist. It was as insipid as the community hootenanny I grew up with. The English flew in one ear and out the other. The Latin makes me concentrate. It took me… maybe a month to start following along in the Latin and understanding what was going on. Had I grown up with it, I’d have been quite proficient in no time.

I have in my possession 3 types of Missals. One from the 50s, the 1962 Missal, and one from the entry of the OF. The OF Missal I have, from the 70’s, has the language “we believe” in the Credo… :eek: Talk about a break from the Latin!! Credo is no We Believe, it’s** I **Believe…

The Judica Me, etc are NECESSARY to understand what is happening.

The repetition of those parts are NECESSARY to understand the gravity of sacrifice.

Reading the Mass of the Catechumens and Mass of the Faithful is catechesis in itself.


#17

Two questions;

  1. You wouldn’t attend if it meant fulfilling your Sunday obligation?

  2. You wouldn’t go to a Papal Mass?


#18
  1. I’d go to the ends of the earth to maintain lack of presence in the OF. I’ll fulfill my obligation, just not at the OF. If the only TLM remaining is in Washington State, I’ll be getting rained on the rest of my life. If in Yuma, AZ, I’ll be sweating the rest of my life. No OF again, ever. EVER.

  2. I’ll never be anywhere near Rome, or the Pope, in his travels, anyway and this is a question which has no bearing on my situation.

No OF again, EVER. I’ll do anything to keep away from it. It fills me with anger and resentment for those who came before and had “good ideas”. The TLM is peace on earth.


#19

So you will NOT go to a valid Mass if there was no EF you could logistically get to, you’d rather stay at home?

I can understand having a preference towards a Form, but if you take a step back and look at what you are writing, you are coming close to saying that the Ordinary Form is not valid and Christ is not present in the Eucharist.


#20

I recognize validity, in accordance with Summorum Pontificum. I do not recognize the OF as being anything but a black mark on my own ability to respond positively to the Mass.

I will not go to the OF. I simply won't. I plan ahead and make it to the TLM. Get off my case. I don't and wont go to the OF and I will sell my entire worth of possessions, work my fingers to the bone, and starve to death before I find myself in a position necessary to fulfill an obligation in a situation that leaves me literally sobbing I am so angry. I will not place myself in a travesty of a situation and began in the Church in the OF. Once I saw how the Mass is supposed to be reverently celebrated, without the community BS, I tried going back to the OF 4 times; each time I grew progressively angry seeing the difference. the 4th time I did nothing but cry at the total lack of respect and the party atmosphere. I WILL NOT GO TO THE OF. Get over it! :mad:

Validity is recognized. I have no desire to be anywhere near the OF and I'll do anything possible to not go. If I don't make it to the TLM, it's because I screwed up somehow. I have 6 days to plan how to make Sunday Mass. 6 days to plan how to not ruin Sunday. I can plan much harder feats in 6 days than how to get to Mass on time.

Case closed. Leave me alone.


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