Why do animals suffer?

We suffer because it was our (well, the first humans’) choice to choose himself over God (original sin and all that…). But why do animals suffer? I’ve heard that nature crashed when man did, but saying that animals started to suffer after the fall goes against science, history, etc. So animals have always suffered (they have to eat each other to survive, etc.).

So why do animals suffer and get sick?

I am not sure they suffer in the same way humans do. They may have a survival reaction to pain though.

The original D.N.A. begins to twist and distort.

The first animals killed were killed by God. I hope they were stunned first, and felt nothing.

Animals suffer because God only gave man the gift of immortality.

If animals didn’t suffer, there could be no evolution, no ecosystem, and no way for man to benefit from animals (food, clothing, etc.).

Here is the first animal death:

“The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.” (Genesis 3:21)

Believe so that you may understand.

Right. As I said before, I hope they were stunned first and felt nothing.

That’s why I don’t like asking these questions – because Strawberry Jam comes to the rescue!! :stuck_out_tongue:

No really.

I interpret this as God providing animals for the benefit of humanity.

So do I. But spiritual interpretations are built on the literal interpretation (CCC #115).

You gotta love Strawberry Jam! :stuck_out_tongue:

Animals suffer because without pain their bodies would have no defence mechanism.

Is there evidence to suggest that animals suffer “moral outrage” over being eaten; or, would they simply view it naturalistically as survival of the fittest and feel about it that no more than “oww.” Are they philosophical about it? Any evidence?

We weep when Bambi’s mother is killed. In real life Bambi doesn’t even bring flowers. :cool:

I think there are times when animals suffer. Interestingly enough, it is only when people are involved. For example, just look at shows like Animals Precinct or commercial for the ASPCA. :frowning:

In nature, animals don’t really suffer other than from natural pain due to natural causes.

Animals do get hurt psychologically when people are involved. Just like a puppy with an abusive owner versus a puppy with a pampering owner.

But does not **all **life have intrinsic value?

I find this anthropic view too limited. All the animals were created for homo sapiens to use as seen fit? The planet was created for homo sapiens? The cosmos was created just for our species?

This is why animals suffer?

Sure, animals don’t experience mental anguish (as far as we know), but they certainly experience pain, and clearly exhibit emotions such as fear and sadness. I’m sure all of us have seen an animal in distress at some point.

From a biblical perspective then, explain to me why animals suffered before the rise of homo sapiens/adam & eve ?

I think if there is a loving God, then “nature, red in tooth in claw” is part of the creation process. I really don’t see how love or compassion fits in this divine creation though.

I have never heard a satisfactory answer on this matter. The only serious attempts I’ve seen is “it’s a mystery”, or a more detailed quote such as “For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.” Isaiah 55:9

Sin and* free will *are irrelevant to natural evil, unless you seriously want to argue that all species, extinct or living did not experience pain and suffering before the rise of homo sapiens.

I often ask, along with the philosopher David Ray Griffin “can the the suffering of billions of other species throughout evolution just for the sake of one species possibly be considered morally justifiable?”

The claim that animals don’t feel pain and suffering in the same way as humans is only a partial solution. I’ll grant that they are spared the anxiety (in most cases) of knowing that they are going to die. But any organism with a nervous system is going to feel pain. It’s disappointing to read the opinions of some 19th century writers trying to claim that animals in fact did not feel pain, they might as well have been rocks.

Surely we’ve progressed since then?

I did want to mention elephants grieve their dead.

I have no idea if animals suffered before the fall of adam and eve, but clearly that action caused blood to be spilled first by animals. Simply to clothe adam and eve. Prior to their fall, there is no evidence they ever had or needed clothing. Which, I think is another part of the story that I simply must reject. They would have needed clothing. But, that sure is a off topic.

Yes and no.

The planet was created for homo sapiens?

Yes.

The cosmos was created just for our species?

Yes

This is why animals suffer?

No.

From a biblical perspective then, explain to me why animals suffered before the rise of homo sapiens/adam & eve ?

False presupposition. The Bible makes perfect sense as is.

I think if there is a loving God, then “nature, red in tooth in claw” is part of the creation process. I really don’t see how love or compassion fits in this divine creation though.

Nor do I. That’s how you can discern that its a lie.

I have never heard a satisfactory answer on this matter.

Then you haven’t been listening.

The only serious attempts I’ve seen is “it’s a mystery”, or a more detailed quote such as “For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.” Isaiah 55:9

True, but the whole truth will do.

Sin and* free will *are irrelevant to natural evil, unless you seriously want to argue that all species, extinct or living did not experience pain and suffering before the rise of homo sapiens.

They didn’t. Of course, we’re only talking about less than 3 days.

I often ask, along with the philosopher David Ray Griffin “can the the suffering of billions of other species throughout evolution just for the sake of one species possibly be considered morally justifiable?”

Not according to God:

“Because God did not make death, nor does he rejoice in the destruction of the living. For he fashioned all things that they might have being” (Wisdom 1:13-14)

It’s disappointing to read the opinions of some 19th century writers trying to claim that animals in fact did not feel pain, they might as well have been rocks.

Do you mean Christians trying to synthesize the theory of evolution with the Truth? That will make a liar of you every time.

Surely we’ve progressed since then?

Knowledge has greatly increased (Daniel 12:4), but love has grown cold (Matthew 24:12) - as foretold.

I guess I should give the whole quote:

“Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe so that you may understand.” - St. Augustine

What can I tell you? Wiser words were never spoken. God bless.

Here’s a more detailed answer for you:

Catechism:

Respect for the integrity of creation

2415 The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity.195 Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man’s dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation.196

2416 Animals are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory.197 Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals.

2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image.198 Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.

2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

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I don’t get this quote or something. This means that I have to believe in God before I understand what he says? Or is this about the animals or something?

Guys I have this girl problem though I need help with pleasse. She is very pretty but I think she wants sex and I cant because Im Catholic.

It means believe everything that God tells you, even if you can’t understand it. Believe it because it is the Word of God. And God will reward you for your humility with the graces of faith and wisdom, and then you will understand more and more. Sorry about the girl thing, but you’ll have to be honest with her and hope that she will understand - and she will if she believes in you. :stuck_out_tongue: Pray to the Blessed Virgin for her, and yourself, to have a chaste heart and mind. God bless.

I don’t want to derail this thread, but some of your arguments need more explanation I think.

You said the universe and everything in it was created for our species. So, you rule out the possibility of extraterrestrials?

What’s a lie, that nature is red in tooth and claw?

True, but the whole truth will do.

So, if natural evil is a mystery because God’s ways are so above our ways, what is the whole truth?

They didn’t. Of course, we’re only talking about less than 3 days.

Hmm, so you are claiming that animals did not experience pain and suffering before the Fall because the world was created in 3 days?

Not according to God:

“Because God did not make death, nor does he rejoice in the destruction of the living. For he fashioned all things that they might have being” (Wisdom 1:13-14)

“I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7

Do you mean Christians trying to synthesize the theory of evolution with the Truth? That will make a liar of you every time.

Wow, does that include Pius XI and John Paul II ? newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm

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