John Martignoni and the Protestant Joe Mizzi (who’s made a hobby out of trying to convince Catholics that they should instead be Protestant) recently conducted a short debate pretty much around this issue. Find it here:
You assume that these cannot be supported from the bible. They may not be directly stated, but a case can be built for them as well, much the same way the Trinity isn’t stated in the bible. Non-of what you mentioned is directly contradicted in the bible. Catholics don’t view the bible as exhaustive, (we also have Sacred Tradition) rather they ensure that their doctrines do not contradict anything in the Bible.
I can find verses that contradict the protestant notions of Faith Alone, Scripture only, Rapture theory (all three), Notion of absent from the body is to be present with the lord, communion only being symbolic, baptism not being neccessary for salvation.
Okay, we don’t really have to drag out that pesky HISTORY again, do we? Okay, if you insist, quick and dirty, here goes:
Thanks for your offer to interpret the Bible for us, but No Thanks. The new testament IS a Catholic document. Get that through your heads. No amount of changing scripture (adding words), twisting scripture, rewriting scripture, ignoring scripture (this IS my body), Martin Luther Calvanizing scripture, or “Bible aloning” will ever, ever change that, no matter how badly you wish it were so. If I were you, that fact “alone” would really tick me off.
The Catholic Church came FIRST. The scripture that is written down is simply SOME of the Tradition that happened to be written down in letters. The new testament was written BY Catholics FOR Catholics (simply because at this point ALL Christians WERE Catholic). It was canonized, protected, copied, and handed down by Catholics all these centuries. If not for the Catholic Church, you wouldn’t HAVE a bible to distort. The Holy Mother Church knows how to interpret its own book, thank you very much. Okay let’s see, on one hand, we’ve got Pastor Bob’s opinion, and on the other, 2000 years of the best theologian minds that have ever lived. Hmmmm, I’m going to go with the Church. Sorry Pastor Bob!
The Church Fathers knew the apostles and their writings fully suport just about all of our tradition and proper beliefs in the bible. You should be afraid of history because if looked at with an OPEN mind, scales may fall. You should read the Bible and not read into the Bible.
The Catholic Church IS the original Christian Church and the original “Bible” Church. Like it or not.
True faith in the Gospel of Jesus will always be accompanied by good works (good fruits).
The saying “Faith Alone” is merely pointing to the fact that it is only the free gift of true faith in Jesus that does the actual saving, not the good works resulting from having such true faith.
Its called Heresy.
When the original Protestants came over things they couldnt understand or explain they threw it out or oversimplified it.
These oversimplifications appeared in simple quotes like “Faith Alone” and “Scripture Alone” which on the outside sound very orthodox and appealing, but lack the foundational theology behind them and are infact dangerous heresies.
Sorry, I know this is about the 478,000th time I’ve posted this, but you’ve brought the following upon yourself:
1 Corinthians 11:2:
I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.
2 Thessalonians 2:15:
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.
But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
2 Peter 1:20-21:
First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
2 Peter 3:15-17:
So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.
1 Timothy 3:14-15:
I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that, if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
You dont have to defend the Bible. As the inspired word of God it needs no defense.What you have to defend is the idea (not even supported by the Bible) that the Bible is the source of all knowledge concerning our Faith.
“It is necessary to take seriously the injunction to consider the word of God to be an indespensable ‘weapon’ in the spiritual struggle. This will be effective and show results if we learn to listen to it and then obey it.”
-Pope Benedict XVI
Also Die Verbum is a good read.
I think its so clear in that document that you just cant miss it.
The simple fact is, its not a Bible issue. its an authority issue.
"It will be as when a man who was going on a journey called in his servants and entrusted his possessions to them. To one he gave five talents; 8 to another, two; to a third, one–to each according to his ability. Then he went away. Immediately the one who received five talents went and traded with them, and made another five. Likewise, the one who received two made another two. But the man who received one went off and dug a hole in the ground and buried his master’s money. After a long time the master of those servants came back and settled accounts with them. The one who had received five talents came forward bringing the additional five. 10 He said, ‘Master, you gave me five talents. See, I have made five more.’ His master said to him, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master’s joy.’ (Then) the one who had received two talents also came forward and said, ‘Master, you gave me two talents. See, I have made two more.’ His master said to him, ‘Well done, my good and faithful servant. Since you were faithful in small matters, I will give you great responsibilities. Come, share your master’s joy.’ Then the one who had received the one talent came forward and said, 'Master, I knew you were a demanding person, harvesting where you did not plant and gathering where you did not scatter; so out of fear I went off and buried your talent in the ground. Here it is back. His master said to him in reply, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I did not plant and gather where I did not scatter? Should you not then have put my money in the bank so that I could have got it back with interest on my return?
**Now then! Take the talent from him and give it to the one with ten. For to everyone who has, more will be given and he will grow rich; but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. And throw this useless servant into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’ ******
Faith and Works.
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