Why Do Protestants Reject the Authority Given to the Church by Christ?


#1

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately and it occurs to me that it takes “Faith” to trust God with a human authority on Faith, Morals, the Scriptures. But does it take More faith than believing God sent His only begotten Son to earth as a tiny baby and to live among us? Why do some protestant Reformists claim that the Church was either never granted authority or it lost authority somewhere along the way?


#2

Because a person starting a Church on their has to assert that or else they contradict their position or belief. A reformer couldn’t assert that Jesus founded an authorative Church that still exists and expect others to follow, when starting his particular church unless he asserted that the Catholic Church had fallen away.

Most people who follow Churches founded by people either 10 years ago or 400 years ago, love Jesus and are following Him in the best way they know how. We should love them and encourage them to learn more about the faith and where it came from, as we all are brothers and sisters in Christ.

Right now I have my family, who attends Calvary Chapel over for the holidays and I am sharing my love for Jesus with them. We need to get past prejudices, because many of these people have tremendous faith. Even some of the reformers or founders of these Churches probably had very strong faith. Look at John Wesley, he is someone to be admired. Chuck Smith founded Calvary Chapel and has brought many people closer to Christ. The only problem is sometimes the inherited beliefs from these faith traditions that speak against the Catholic Church. Instead of bringing unity these further divide and retain misconceptions and prejudices of the Catholic Church, and it continues…on and on dividing people.

I already have gotten some questions from my relatives here whom are former Catholics, but as I share the faith with them we talk more comfortably and the Church isn’t such a “bad” thing to them, heck we might even be Christian. It is really hard to even look at the Catholic Church for many people and that is sometimes the fault of us Catholics pushing people away.

The problem is not sharing the faith and retaining prejudices, we need to lay it out in the open.

God Bless
Scylla


#3

If you are Catholic then it is your responsibility to raise your children Catholic.

Then why do you allow them to attend a non-Catholic Church?

Ken


#4

Maybe I should have cleared that up, my immediate family is 100% Catholic, my wife and kids. We came back to the Church this year and baptized the kids and have been married in the Church. We go the the Catholic Church.

This is my wife’s sister, husband and daughter that are here visiting. I just consider them part of my family too. They go to Calvary Chapel.

Merry Christmas
Scylla


#5

[quote=scylla]The problem is not sharing the faith and retaining prejudices, we need to lay it out in the open.
[/quote]

So it’s our fault that they reject the Authority given by Christ to the Church.

I’m sorry, I just disagree with that.

My personal feeling is that they are holding onto old prejudices because they are comfortable and convenient for them, rather than truly seeking the “truth” about the Church.

Let’s face it, knowing the truth would require a great deal of change — and every thing is so comfortable right now.

Consider the story of Jesus and the rich man. He asked “what must I do to please God?” Christ told him to keep all the Commandments. He told Him he had done this since childhood, then Christ said, “sell what you have, give to the poor, and follow Me.” The man walked away sad, for he had many possessions.

Truth demands change. Change is difficult. Sameness is comfortable.

We do remember though, that Christ came to comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable.


#6

[quote=scylla]…They go to Calvary Chapel.
[/quote]

Oh boy…

You know, I think there was a debate taped between some calvary chapel person(s) and Tim Staples…and maybe even Jesse Romero, wasn’t there? Other’s on this board can clarify this if I’m wrong. I haven’t heard the tape yet, but I’m sure it would be a wonderful piece of media for you to hear in order to understand what your family member’s calvary chapel believes. But even better yet, it would be a great piece for YOU to understand what the true Church believes.

I had the luxury of listening to a calvary chapel preacher who had his own call in radio show in Denver. I called a few times. His name was Gino (Don’t know the spelling of his last name). He was very confident in his beliefs and I could tell he was raised catholic. He wasn’t anti-catholic to say, but he wouldn’t hesitate to bring somebody out of the Church. My only problem is that he is so confident when he is speaking (and very educated…) that he can easily make others think that the catholic Church is an idolistic church. I caught him on the so-called “apocropha” one evening. Let me give you the background…

One evening Gino was gone for the night show so a sit-in was hosting the radio show for him. Well somebody called in and asked why the catholics had 7 more books in their bible. Loosley quoted, this guy says, “The catholic Church added those seven books in response to the protestant reformation. In order to fortify their claims of praying to the dead, the books were added. The books are completely false and there is absolutely no reference to them by Jesus or the apostles.” There was a kind of humor and down play of the subject and the caller was faithful in this host’s reply, by his closing statement.

I heard the whole thing and was like, “wow…did I just hear that?” Needless to say, I couldn’t call in or get through. I can’t remember which it was. But a week or so later I called in and let Gino know about this host’s comments. I asked Gino, who is very educated in theology of some sort, to clear up the untruthful statements made by his friend. He sure as heck did, in his own words! Very loosley quoted…again :), He said, “well the books weren’t added to answer the protestant reformation. They are called the apocropha. They were’t part of the Jewish “canon” because of a few reasons. They weren’t written in Hebrew, they weren’t written before a specific date.” I can’t remember the rest. But I was like, “wow!..did I just hear that?”. He had alot of the historical reasons why not, but completely danced around the reasons why they are in the Bible. (Just as a side note and not trying to get off the subject…even though I was raised protestant, I thought the true “Apocrapha” was the set of books, letter, etc that were part of the group that didn’t enter the Bible? Even then, aren’t they just books that don’t really have a designated group name? I recall hearing books referred to as, “apocraphal”.)

The confidence in which calvary chapel speakers talk is amazing and very enthusiastic with heartfelt emotion. This doesn’t mean that they are in truth! As a matter of fact, I’m sure this applies to all fundamentals and protestant faiths. The “togetherness”, “strong preaching”, “feel the holy Spirit”, “loving”, “more than once a week services”, etc is NOT truth. Remember that old saying, “…the truth hurts…” I’m sure Jesus felt much hurt as he took on the truth of our human nature. And I know dang well that I hurt when I see how my local parish is when it comes to turning their back on Church beliefs. The catholic Church always has and always will hurt until Jesus returns. He never said it would be the smoothest, most passionate love filled, charismatic Church. But it is HIS Church given to our early fathers, the apostles under the authority of Peter to preserve the fullness of the faith and truth.

“The CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth.”


#7

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#8

I said we and meant we, need to share the faith together and reject prejudices.

If I categorize all Protestants and they categorize all Catholics then we retain the same prejudices.

Let me explain, why I think this is how problems arise.

When anti-catholics misrepresent Catholics and make non-catholics have a distrust of Catholicism so that they are not even willing to consider the Catholic Church as true. I know I had to overcome some prejudices of the Catholic Church just to come back to it because they are so deeply held by some.

Now Catholics need to not think all non-catholics are not seeking truth and just seeking comfort, there are indeed some who are but there are many seeking truth. We see them visit often and if we treat honest people like we do the ones who use emotion or any excuse to write of Catholicism as a valid truth, then we are being an obstacle to them.

We need to not compromise and present truth, but make sure to respect others in our presentation. Change is difficult, we should present the truth fairly and not with snide remarks or a superior attitude. If more Catholics presented the truth and weren’t shy about it we would change the world in a decade. If more Catholics shared the faith like Jehovah’s Witnesses did, like Mormons or anyone else who goes out. Just a few months ago I had a couple from an independant church show up at my door, who I was able to share Catholicism with them, but why should I have waited until they came to me?

Amen on your first point, I know personally of a Pastor who seeks his own comfort and ignores truth, and I am sure there are others out there, we see people all the time who ignore truth for comfort, but many people end up knowing Christ through these Churches. Most the people I know get their prejudices from their faith traditions and don’t really make them up themselves.

God Bless
Scylla


#9

Great comment. That’s why I think that a purchase of that audio would better help you understand your family members beliefs and strengthen YOUR catholic beliefs. Tim Staples came to catholicism from a strong pentecostal background and training. Jesse was a cradle catholic who dipped into fundementalism for a while and came back. Actually from listening to Jesse’s conversion story, I recall some strong calvary chapel beliefs in his fundamentalism. Good luck to you and your family, may you enjoy this Christmas season and God Bless!


#10

Thank you for the responses, I have the tapes of Tim Staples from Saint Joseph communications, I didn’t know the Mary Foundation also had them.
That is a classic tape, and it is very revealing how thin the theology is and how easily it breaks down.

I spend a lot of time around people from Calvary Chapel and I am really trying to stress a certain point if you read my posts.

That the people are not to blame unless they are not honest and respectful in their dialogue with you. What is to blame is the faith tradition and inherent mis-representations of the truth.

If I attack their faith as “bad” I will get no-where with someone from Calvary Chapel… I visit this church often and know that people love Jesus and there is plenty of good there. Since Calvary Chapel is centered on Jesus he Bible we can start there as a point of dialogue and then work for truth.

The confidence of a Calvary Chapel belief is reinforced as it has become a culture of belief. Calvary Chapel dominates the town in which I live as it is in the heart of the upscale neighborhood, supported by the majority of businesses and is almost a part of the culture of the town I live in. The Catholic Church presence is minimal.

That is the pressure I had to work against, owning a business in studying for truth and coming back to the Catholic Church. It is difficult and I am struggling to share my faith with other business owners who are seemingly united in their belief as Calvary Chapel being “the christians”.

God Bless
Scylla


#11

[quote=scylla]…
If I attack their faith as “bad” I will get no-where with someone from Calvary Chapel… I visit this church often and know that people love Jesus and there is plenty of good there. Since Calvary Chapel is centered on Jesus he Bible we can start there as a point of dialogue and then work for truth…
[/quote]

Great point. That’s why I had to step back a bit and take a breather for a couple days…Thank God it was Christmas!


#12

[quote=scylla]. We need to not compromise and present truth, but make sure to respect others in our presentation. Change is difficult, we should present the truth fairly and not with snide remarks or a superior attitude. If more Catholics presented the truth and weren’t shy about it we would change the world in a decade.
[/quote]

You know, I always believe the Truth should be presented in love and with sensitivity, but when having done that, as on this forum and in other places, you are presented with mockery and an outright denial of the Truth, it is at that point – I believe a sometimes “sarcastic” or an ironic remark brings the original point home. And Jesus sometimes did this with the pharisees who always assumed they were superior in their interpretation of the ancient scriptures and their meaning.

In my personal testimony, I had left the Catholic Church in the mid 1980s to the mid 1990s and visited many protestant churches. I even belonged to a Calvary Chapel for a year or two. What you’re telling me in nothing new. I know their tactics and their distain for Catholics. And like most, not all, protestant churches — disgruntled or ignorant and offended Catholics run to them for “comfort.”

I was a disgruntled, offended and quite ignorant Catholic for years. But once I discovered the Truth about the Catholic Faith and why we have the doctrines we have coupled with Who gave the Church her authority, I found peace.

My biggest reason for returning is that I missed immensely the “Life sustaining” Body and Blood of Christ. Without it, I felt dead and incomplete, no matter where I went.

In the end, Jesus Christ called me to “come home.” When I did, the Peace that passes all understanding came into my heart for good. :thumbsup:

Have a Joyous New Year


#13

[quote=seabird3579]Why Do Protestants Reject the Authority Given to the Church by Christ?
[/quote]

The simple answer is, we don’t.

The question you need to ask is, “Why don’t Protestants recognize that the institution that is modern Catholicism is, in fact, the Church Christ gave authority to?”

The short answer to that question is that Protestants have compared modern Catholicism to biblical descriptions of the Church and judged them to be two different entities.


#14

[quote=Angainor]The simple answer is, we don’t.

The question you need to ask is, “Why don’t Protestants recognize that the institution that is modern Catholicism is, in fact, the Church Christ gave authority to?”

The short answer to that question is that Protestants have compared modern Catholicism to biblical descriptions of the Church and judged them to be two different entities.
[/quote]

I am sure most Protestants don’t recognize the Church from the Bible as it is interpreted in many different ways. This is why so many Churches based off the Bible look so different. From Lutheran Churches which look and act almost the same as Catholic Churches to modern Mega-Churches that look and believe quite different to small independant house Churches, which can meet in groups of a few people and believe what their own pastor determines.

We each inherit a little bit of a faith tradition depending on the background\founders and approach each of us takes. Unfortunately many of us do judge others and take it upon ourselves to be the judge of others. I really have learned in my interaction with different faith traditions to try and not judge others and find mutual truths we can accept and seek unity and truth together.

Of course modern Catholicism wouldn’t match exactly what the Bible describes as the Church, especially depending upon approach and faith tradition interpreting the Bible. Also the Bible was made to know what to use in worship, not as a Catechism or Church manual.

Heck, most of my Evangelical friends would say that Lutherans do not resemble the Bible Church either.

God Bless
Scylla


#15

Please read carefully and thoroughly.

Matthew 16:18-19 / Isaiah 22:22 (Authority)
1 Timothy 3:15 (Authority)


#16

[quote=scylla]Heck, most of my Evangelical friends would say that Lutherans do not resemble the Bible Church either.
[/quote]

That’s actually fine by me. I, as a Lutheran, do not claim that “Lutheranism” is The Church established by Christ. Christ’s Church is much larger than “Lutheranism”.


#17

[quote=Angainor]That’s actually fine by me. I, as a Lutheran, do not claim that “Lutheranism” is The Church established by Christ. Christ’s Church is much larger than “Lutheranism”.
[/quote]

That is a good point.

Merry Christmas, my brother in Christ,
Scylla


#18

quote: Angainor

That’s actually fine by me. I, as a Lutheran, do not claim that “Lutheranism” is The Church established by Christ. Christ’s Church is much larger than “Lutheranism”.

Exactly.

reen12


#19

[quote=Angainor]The simple answer is, we don’t.

The question you need to ask is, “Why don’t Protestants recognize that the institution that is modern Catholicism is, in fact, the Church Christ gave authority to?”

The short answer to that question is that Protestants have compared modern Catholicism to biblical descriptions of the Church and judged them to be two different entities.
[/quote]

No offense, but you really haven’t said anything. Almost everything today bears no resemblance to the First Century. Could you elaborate a little? :slight_smile:

Thanks,
Brenda


#20

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