Why Do the Palestinians Only Make Land Claims Against Israel?

I used to think that they were a poor oppressed people, but then I got smart. Israel didn’t invade the sovereign territory of Palestine. Why then don’t the Palestinians make any land claims against Jordan or Egypt? When hasn’t it been clear that the only people oppressing the Palestinians are their fellow Arabs in the Middle East. I mean, international pressure is so great against Israel, that there is no way that the Palestinians couldn’t have had a state by now if that was their real goal.

I can’t understand how the Left has taken on the cause of the Palestinians, except that somehow Israel is associated with the “American industrial military complex… or daddy”. Israel is a country like any other. There are things that I like about them and things that I don’t, but as long as there are militants massing in the Arab streets chanting “death to Israel” or “drive Israel into the sea” I will continue to give my full support the Israel-- lobby or not.

[quote=Ltcatholic]I used to think that they were a poor oppressed people, but then I got smart. Israel didn’t invade the sovereign territory of Palestine. Why then don’t the Palestinians make any land claims against Jordan or Egypt? When hasn’t it been clear that the only people oppressing the Palestinians are their fellow Arabs in the Middle East. I mean, international pressure is so great against Israel, that there is no way that the Palestinians couldn’t have had a state by now if that was their real goal.

I can’t understand how the Left has taken on the cause of the Palestinians, except that somehow Israel is associated with the “American industrial military complex… or daddy”. Israel is a country like any other. There are things that I like about them and things that I don’t, but as long as there are militants massing in the Arab streets chanting “death to Israel” or “drive Israel into the sea” I will continue to give my full support the Israel-- lobby or not.
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AMEN!!!

Because they made up their minds after hearing only one side of the story and were never willing to give the other side a fair hearing. All of us tend to be guilty of this.

Plenty of blame to go around here. Nobody gets to wear a lily white hat. That said, I too tend to favor the side that stands to lose their entire existance rather than those who stand to lose a debateably valid land claim.

Seems to me that the Palestinians would be a lot better off accepting the West Bank and Gaza as national territory and get busy building a permanent nation and hitting up some oil rich neighbors for investment instead of engaging in perpetually futile warfare and hopelessness.

Many have told me I’d not feel the same if Mexico somehow managed to invade and hold several southern border states. Dang right I wouldn’t. But it’s not the same. A more accurate analogy would be to point out that I haven’t spent my whole life plotting to figure out how to go back to Poland and take revenge on the descendents of those ‘noblemen’ who exploited my serf ancestors. (Admittedly, this analogy would work better if the Nazis and Communists hadn’t already likely killed off the ‘noble’ lines…)

[quote=manualman]Seems to me that the Palestinians would be a lot better off accepting the West Bank and Gaza as national territory and get busy building a permanent nation and hitting up some oil rich neighbors for investment instead of engaging in perpetually futile warfare and hopelessness.
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Except there are still Zionists “settlers” illegally occupying the West Bank, and Israel doesn’t seem to have any plans to get out of the West Bank. They’re having enough trouble pulling out of the less valuable Gaza Strip.

If I was regularly fighting off my neighbors and took land in the aftermath of a war begun by them against me, I would be loathe to give it up. The Palestinians and others in the Middle East will not be happy until Jerusalem is the capital of a Muslim state, and Israel appears on no map at all.

[quote=manualman]I haven’t spent my whole life plotting to figure out how to go back to Poland and take revenge on the descendents of those ‘noblemen’ who exploited my serf ancestors.
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Are you speaking of the Szlachta and the Chlopstwo?

[quote=Richardols]Are you speaking of the Szlachta and the Chlopstwo?
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Nope, nothing so specific. All I know is that my great-great grandparents came here because there was utterly no hope to improve their lot back home. The fact that they saw fit NOT to instill generational grudges about the injustice of the system present at the time says a fair bit about them. They rarely spoke of it to great grandpa and he spoke nearly nothing of it to grandpa.

What I have found interesting in that region of the world, as well as Africa, is that the national boundaries being fought over were not determined by the inhabitants, but by the western powers. Before WWI, that entire area was part of the Ottoman Empire. After WWI, the allies formed the middle east nations, including Palestine, but not Israel. After WWII, the allies abolished Palestine, and created Israel. Likewise, the nations in Africa were not created by Africans, they are boundaries of European colonies.

There have been some strange events over the years that has caused the current problems. Don’t have solutions, just making an observation.

Another observation…I have passed 100 posts.

I would like to remind people that the Christians native to the Holy Land are indeed Palestinians, who have suffered along with the Muslims at the hands of the Zionists. The Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, His Beatitude Michael Sabbah has been very critical of the way the Zionists have been treating the Palestinians, and rightly so. Just because a bunch of insane Protestants in the U.S. will support everything Israel does doesn’t mean decent Catholics should do the same.

[quote=Benedictus]I would like to remind people that the Christians native to the Holy Land are indeed Palestinians, who have suffered along with the Muslims at the hands of the Zionists. The Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, His Beatitude Michael Sabbah has been very critical of the way the Zionists have been treating the Palestinians, and rightly so. Just because a bunch of insane Protestants in the U.S. will support everything Israel does doesn’t mean decent Catholics should do the same.
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We Catholics ought to stake out our own, identifiably Catholic, interests when it comes to issues like this.

We should disassociate ourselves from the alliance between Likudnik Zionists and Protestant Christian Zionists which is running America’s Middle East policy.

I agree with you ** Benedictus ** on the issue of settlers… and what ** jsk** has stated about the Allies forming the Middle eastern nations is completely true…

What many people fail to realize is the day to day struggle of Palestinians… To have everything, even simple things such as being able to go from one town to another dependant on whether the Israeli military feels like letting you pass on lines at checkpoints where it is normal to be waiting 6 hours or more at a time.

Where you have Jewish settlements in the West Bank getting 80% of the fresh water… often leaving Palestinian families without water for days or a whole week.

And the permit system over there… Where almost every week a new permit ordinance is passed.

Many times children on their way to school as young as 6 are tear gassed for no reason and if you are need of medical help, many times at checkpoints Palestinians are not allowed to go to a medical clinic and there have been many cases of Palestinian women having to give birth at checkpoints…often resulting in the deaths of the newborns.

And if you think **Palestinian Christians **are exempt from the injustices… You are wrong… Many Palestinian Christians have lost their homes in Jerusalem due to being pushed out by Zionist fanatics. In **Bethlehem you see the planning of a tourist themepark looking to kick out most of the Christian families living there. **

Not too long ago a Palestinian Christian family in Bethlehem had their car fired on by Israeli solidiers killing the family’s young daughter.

**And does any Catholic or Christian do anything other than a handful to help the Christian community there? No… **

One Melkite Priest I met there told me something I will never forget, he said **"Palestinian Christians are the living stones of the Christian faith and the root of all Christians in the world… Never did I think I would see the day where these living stones would become dead stones in a museum in memory of the Native Palestinian Christians that use to inhabit the Holy Land… " ** :frowning:

My feelings of despair from his words is an understatement…

This is the day to day life of a Palestinian… Be they Muslim or Christian

Now, that being said… I do agree that Arafat was corrupt through and through and the Palestinian Authority was a joke… but, chaos and an lack of interal infastructure are to the benefit of those seeking to keep Palestinians a race of people without a country.

Money blinds people… period.

Many Arab leaders have their hands in the pockets of Western governments… (Saudi Arabia and Egypt being good examples) They could care less for democracy in their countries or for their peoples basic human rights.

Its all part of a divide and conquer mentality… Keep a region in chaos, its leaders pockets lined with money and let the carnage go on with a blind eye by the leaders.

There are too many outside people with their fingers in the Middle East pie who need to deal with their own countries problems first.

No country is willing to make either side… Israeli or Palestinian … keep their end of the bargain. Lots of talk, international laws and treaties set up by the U.N… which are nothing more than words on paper.

I love all people… don’t care what race, religion or philosophy of life you follow, but, what the Israeli government is doing to the Palestinian people is inhumane and the propaganda machine which has caused the Palestinian people to be regarded as a race that is looked at by almost the whole world community as " sub-human scum " should be very proud of its work.

Try living in a Palestinians shoes for a month and see if you come out of the experience with a smile. Most people forget they are HUMAN BEINGS who feel hurt, pain and trauma just like anyone else…

When you have someone such as the ** REVEREND DESMOND TUTU ** who lived and breathed the Apartheid years in South Africa say that what he sees happening to the Palestinian people as being worse ** than anything he has seen during the years of Apartheid in South Africa **, it is cause for GREAT concern as to what is really going on over there.

I have been to the West Bank and Israel… It is easy to read from newspapers or from the news and think you know what is fact from fiction… quite another to see it for yourself.

God bless all and I would hope that if the roles where reversed and you and your children were as reviled as Palestinian men, women and children are… That you would want another human heart to see that you are someones mother, brother, sister as well…

Peace to all

Palestine did make land claims in Jordan they had a war and they lost. End of story. They have been allowed to immigrate their kinda as a conslation prize but they know the land is Jordanian and not theirs.
Palestenians and Israel have been warring for years and their is no end of story - now if they give some consolation prizes such as the Gaza strip and such maybe things would cool off a little but until very recently this has not been a reality and I hear the Jews are having a hard time moving Zionist outside of the regions their government decided to give up to further peace negotiations.
There are extremes on both sides zionist have killed Jews and Palestenians in their own attacks and of course the Palestenians have done this on an even greater basis. But considering the miliatry power they don’t have to resort to terorrism they just blow up entire settlements with military force.
Its a very complicated issue that presidents since the Nixon administration couldn’t help put peace together. Both sides are the bad guys and both sides have had innocents slaughtered.
WIth Arafat gone their is some renewed hope but its going to take a lot of prayer. And the Jewish governemnt has treated the Palestenian Christians like dirt not renewing the franciscans visas to further their ministry in the holy land the vatican is trying to address this situation also a couple weeks back the Jewish government critisized the POpe for not condeming Palestenian terrorism and that teh Vatican intentially left them out as victims of terrorism. Of course this is utterly ridiculous the attention of the world has been on Iraq and England lately thus they got mentioned but the zionist never fail to put in a sucker punch to the Vatican.

[quote=Ltcatholic]I used to think that they were a poor oppressed people, but then I got smart. Israel didn’t invade the sovereign territory of Palestine. Why then don’t the Palestinians make any land claims against Jordan or Egypt? When hasn’t it been clear that the only people oppressing the Palestinians are their fellow Arabs in the Middle East. I mean, international pressure is so great against Israel, that there is no way that the Palestinians couldn’t have had a state by now if that was their real goal.

I can’t understand how the Left has taken on the cause of the Palestinians, except that somehow Israel is associated with the “American industrial military complex… or daddy”. Israel is a country like any other. There are things that I like about them and things that I don’t, but as long as there are militants massing in the Arab streets chanting “death to Israel” or “drive Israel into the sea” I will continue to give my full support the Israel-- lobby or not.
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The real irony of it is that they “palestinians” were originally from Jordan. They were kicked out of there and have become the Mid-East’s tool. The leaders of the Mid East use these poor folks as a weapon against Israel. These leaders don’t give a d*mn about their “plight” they simply use them as a tool aimed at the destruction of Israel.

[quote=Benedictus]I would like to remind people that the Christians native to the Holy Land are indeed Palestinians, who have suffered along with the Muslims at the hands of the Zionists. The Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, His Beatitude Michael Sabbah has been very critical of the way the Zionists have been treating the Palestinians, and rightly so. Just because a bunch of insane Protestants in the U.S. will support everything Israel does doesn’t mean decent Catholics should do the same.
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Yes because those poor Muslims who took over the Church of the Nativity and defecated on the altar while using Bibles and Missals as toilet tissue are the victims in this. Whatever.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Jews were living on that parcel of land some 3,000 years ago. Sounds like a pretty good claim to me.

[quote=gnjsdad]We Catholics ought to stake out our own, identifiably Catholic, interests when it comes to issues like this.

We should disassociate ourselves from the alliance between Likudnik Zionists and Protestant Christian Zionists which is running America’s Middle East policy.
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I wonder why you make no mention of disassociating ourselves from the agenda of the Mohammedans as well.

[quote=UnworthySoul]The real irony of it is that they “palestinians” were originally from Jordan. They were kicked out of there and have become the Mid-East’s tool.
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This is would really significant, if it were true. Palestinians are, by the Palestinian National Convention’s definition, Arabs and Jews who inhabited Palestine before the modern Zionist immigrations started.

Consider your source please. They WERE from Jordan. They WERE kicked out. Tell me, if the Mid Eastern nations are so very concerned for the Palestinians, why don’t they offer up a bit of THEIR land for them to settle on? They have considerably more, after all. I’ll tell you why, because they want the Jews destroyed. To say otherwise is to ignore the historical facts. They target Israel because of their intense hatred of the Jews.

[quote=UnworthySoul]Yes because those poor Muslims who took over the Church of the Nativity and defecated on the altar while using Bibles and Missals as toilet tissue are the victims in this. Whatever.
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I’ve never heard that. I know that Patriarch Michael Sabbah has said that the priests willingly accepted them into the Church of the Nativity.

[quote=UnworthySoul]Consider your source please. They WERE from Jordan. They WERE kicked out. Tell me, if the Mid Eastern nations are so very concerned for the Palestinians, why don’t they offer up a bit of THEIR land for them to settle on?
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What is your source? Read the Wikipedia article. It explains who the Palestinians are.

The West Bank is part of Jordan that Israel has been illegally occupying.

And Israel was illegally attacked by Jordan and five other Arab nations. Spoils of war and all that. They don’t like it? They never should have attacked Israel.

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