Originally Posted by jjr9
What causes you to believe [the Church’s] statement is true beyond self-identification.
My concern is that the Church claims some have an exclusive SSA that is they are incapable of OSA.
What causes you to believe that your own statement that all people are capable of sexual OSA is true beyond self-identification?
I personally know several people who have said that they are exclusively attracted to people of the same sex and they believe that since God created them that way, then he would want them to have a loving sexual relationship with a person of the same sex.
So when I read the Church’s definition with that in mind, I see that the Church is very clear that this section of the Catechism includes, and is directed towards, even those people who are most likely to claim that it is not for them.
Furthermore in their definition they do not say that there are men and women “who are exclusively SSA…” and therefore incapable of OSA. Rather the definition states that there are men and women “who experience an exclusive…”.
Experience is always subjective to the person who is experiencing; therefore it necessitates self-identification of that experience by that person. But for any number of reasons, the conclusions of the experience may or may not be true and the conclusion could be true for one person and false for another person. Even for the same person, it could be true at some point in their life, and false at another point in their life. It’s completely subjective.
While a person may have only experienced an exclusive SSA throughout their life, it does not follow that for the rest of their entire life that same person will always continue to experience an exclusive SSA. The Church is not claiming that they are incapable of OSA, merely that the person’s subjective experience is exclusively or predominantly SSA . Experience is completely subjective and subject to change with each experience.
A person may exclusively experience SSA and then one day the right OS person enters their life and surprisingly they find that their experiential exclusivity, which up to that point was true, is no longer true. But on the other hand, that same person may only experience exclusively SSA for their entire life. That doesn’t mean they are incapable of OSA, it simply means they never experienced it.
Therefore I have no problem accepting that what the Church is claiming to be true by their definition, is indeed true; that some people experience an exclusive or predominant SSA. The Church is not claiming anything beyond that in their definition. This also is not a promotion by the Church of the “homosexual person”, rather it is acknowledging that this is a real experience for many people. In order to address any issue, the issue itself first has to be acknowledged and defined. And perhaps sometimes the definition itself needs to be defined and clarified.
Hopefully this properly addressed your concern.
Originally Posted by jjr9
I agree that SSA and OSA are both attraction OSA can lead to Agape Love and marriage or temptation to sin. SSA can only lead to temptation to sin. This has nothing to do with my concern.
Just wanted to clarify this. Both SSA and OSA can lead to Agape Love or temptation to sin. Christ said “Love (agape) one another as I have loved (agape) you” (John 13:34). Agape love does not necessarily lead to marriage, nor in most cases to a physical sexual expression of that love, otherwise what Christ commanded would not make sense. You seem to be under the impression that SSA is necessarily lustful and a temptation in and of itself, but if that were the case OSA would also always be lustful and a temptation in itself. No, Christ commanded us to agape love both same sex and opposite sex. He would not have commanded something which is sinful in and of itself. Agape love may sometimes include a sexual expression, but agape goes beyond sex.