Why has the Catholic church drifted from it's roots?


#21

[quote=Sir Knight]I am in a discussion with someone and their position is that today’s Catholic church is not the church that Christ established because it does not do the things that the original church did.
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This “someone” has a huge misconception, a great ignorance and a lot of bad faith… That is to think that Christ and the Holy Catholic Church are different realities. Remember Acts 9, 4-5: “He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting”.” The fact is that Saul was persecuting the Church. The answer of Christ is clear: to persecute the Church is to persecute me, because Jesus is the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ. So, Christ did not establish the Church and disappeared and then the Church “drifted from its roots”. He remains in her Church forever. In each Holy Mass: “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18, 20). In each Holy Eucharist: “Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him” (John 6, 56). In the lives of the martyrs and saints… As stated by E.E.N.S: “Let us not forget the parable of the mustard seed; did the mustard plant “drift from it’s roots?” No, it grew, Jesus told us that it wouldn’t look like the seed. The Church is living, and it grows as well…it’s roots have not “drifted” but it has grown like Christ intended.”


#22

[quote=Sir Knight]Thank you for your replies – they proved to be most helpful. :thumbsup: Thank you for your charitable comments :rolleyes: I get this from Catholic-bashers when I try to defend the Catholic church – I didn’t expect it from members of my own faith. :frowning:
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My Bad I thought your were attacking your own church. That was a little hard for me to take. Ok your having a conversation and you don’t how to reply to them. Sorry missed that. The same answers apply here you have gotten some good answers here use them. This person sounds like fundamentilist you need to get Karl Keatings book of course.


#23

Maccabees, apology accepted.

You talked me into it :thumbsup:


#24

We don’t have to wait a century to find Church members “drifting”

In the conversation between Peter and Jesus immediately after Jesus told Peter, “on this rock I will build my Church”, Peter tries to talk Jesus out of the death that he had to face. Jesus severely rebukes Peter… but he doesn’t take away the place he gave to Peter.

My point is this. We will be drifting to some extent or another until Jesus comes again. That does not mean that we should abandon one “Church” in favor of another. It means we should keep praying for God to send his Son again and we should do the best we can until then.

peace

-Jim


#25

[quote=Sir Knight]Maccabees
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, apology accepted.

You talked me into it :thumbsup:You won’t be sorry DK. I assure you of that!


#26

[quote=Maccabees]Most importatnly First century Christians were not “Protestants”.
They would not be know until the 16th century.
Now if your so concerned with numbers think about how Real Christiantiy disapeared for 1500 years.
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Hah! Good observation…


#27

[quote=NotWorthy]Bear in mind also that when archaeologist dig up old Greek ruins, they inevitably came across places of worship. More often then not, they found the baptismal fonts in these places to be no more than 18 inches deep (to the rim, the water would have been shallower). Sort of kind of hard to totally immerse in water that shallow.

There’s also a fresco in the Vatican that dates back over a 1000 years (I believe over 1500 years) that shows a baptism. The person being baptized in standing in water up to his knees.

NotWorthy
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Interesting. Is there any books that show the Catholic side of Christian archaeology? Many Fundamentalist I’ve met seem to have the Idea that the Catholic church has no interest in Early Christian Archaeology contemporary with the Apsotles when in fact the early founders of Christian Archaeology were Catholic.

catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd00723.htm

A good Catholic book with reference to Archaeology is sorely needed.


#28

[quote=Sir Knight]I am in a discussion with someone and their position is that today’s Catholic church is not the church that Christ established because it does not do the things that the original church did. Namely …
[list=1]
*]First century Christians did not employ “Rosaries”.
*]First century Christians did not sell scapulars.
*]First century Christians did not participate in pedobaptism (if so,show me book,line,verse … their ‘demand’, not mine)
*]First century Christians did not worship or pray to Mary (book, line, verse)
*]First century Christians baptized by immersion…the very word baptize means “to immerse”.
[/list]… As always, any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Oh, my Heavens, one of those nasty Catholic Defect Lists our Protestant brothers looooooooooooove to promulgate.

  1. A “Rosary” of sorts, in the sense of a prayer with “vain repetitions,” the favorite Protestant criticism of the Rosary, can be found in every Early Church Psalter – see Psalm 136, where the words “for His mercy endures forever” are repeated dozens of times.

  2. They instead gambled for Jesus’ cloak as He hung on the cross, and carved chirhos onto various surfaces.

  3. Jesus says, “Let the children come to me, and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matthew 19:14. He doesn’t say, “Keep 'em away until they reach the age of reason!” Added to this is the fact that the Apostles baptized entire families and households. Scripture does not bother to except-out children. See Acts 10:24, 47-48; 16:15. That’s clear enough for someone genuinely seeking proof instead of verification of anti-Catholic hatred.

  4. In Revelation 12:6, 14, the “woman” who is the mothger of Christ flees to a “special place prepared for her in the desert.” In the Bible, the Desert Type = “world in need of salvation.” Where in the “world in need of salvation” is there a “special place” for Mary? The only place fitting that description is The Roman Catholic Church which venerates Mary.

  5. And Christ was probably baptized by immersion, too.

However, Christ Himself uses the term “washed” (KJV) fer to baptism – John 13:10 KJV. If Christ can make the jump from “immersing” to “washing,” so can we.


#29

Read “Four Witnesses” by John Bennett to understand what the early Church was like in the first 2 centuries. Catholics will be energized, Protestant eyes will be opened or remain in denial.


#30

[quote=Sir Knight]First century Christians did not participate in pedobaptism (if so,show me book,line,verse … their ‘demand’, not mine)
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Ah, but you see, the need for proof lies with them! When the New Testament says that "circumcision is a type for Baptism", and we all know circumcision could be done as early as the 8th day (I hope that’s right), then they need to prove that it really means, “Circumcision is a type for Baptism, except you can’t do it to children”.

Why do we let them dictate the rules and change them to fit their arguments!?!?!?!?!

Notworthy


#31

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