Why I no longer attend the Tridentine Mass

Another thread made me think about why I no longer attend the Tridentine Mass here locally:

1.) People bitterly gossiping about those they perceived to be “modernists” prior to the Mass. At least they do it outside.

2.) The very cold reception they gave as a group to visitors who they felt were not dressed appropriately for the Mass.

3.) The intense peer pressure amongst the women (also directed to visiting women) to cover their heads.

4.) The contrived feeling of superiority displayed by more than a few at “coffee” after Mass. (Very few attended, thank goodness.)

5.) The outright hatred voiced towards the “new” Mass.

6.) The gossip directed to the wonderful 80 year old monsignor who went out of his way to celebrate the Tridentine Mass in our parish’s chapel each Sunday.

7.) The general lack understanding of what the Church actually instructs.

8.) A horrible “bunker mentality” – an “us against the rest of the Church” mentality.

9.) A focus on what is wrong, versus what is right.

10.) The constant “drum-beat” that Vatican Council II is wrong and that only a return to the Tridentine Mass will help the Church.

I could go on, but that’s a quick 10.

How unfortunate for you. I attend a Latin High Mass a few times a month and have never experienced anything like what you’ve described. I attend a Novus Ordo Mass daily and considering I see the same people everyday, day in and day out, and we kind of know each other’s little idiosyncracies and all, I encounter very little strife at that Mass either.

But I don’t tend to be looking around or hearing much of what goes on other than the Mass (and I don’t do the after-coffee at the Tridentine service as that kind of get-together, since we’re all human and all, generally will lend itself to something unkind or uncharitable eventually) so maybe it occurs and is just out of my attention.

Penitent

[quote=Pariah Pirana]Another thread made me think about why I no longer attend the Tridentine Mass here locally:

1.) People bitterly gossiping about those they perceived to be “modernists” prior to the Mass. At least they do it outside.

2.) The very cold reception they gave as a group to visitors who they felt were not dressed appropriately for the Mass.

3.) The intense peer pressure amongst the women (also directed to visiting women) to cover their heads.

4.) The contrived feeling of superiority displayed by more than a few at “coffee” after Mass. (Very few attended, thank goodness.)

5.) The outright hatred voiced towards the “new” Mass.

6.) The gossip directed to the wonderful 80 year old monsignor who went out of his way to celebrate the Tridentine Mass in our parish’s chapel each Sunday.

7.) The general lack understanding of what the Church actually instructs.

8.) A horrible “bunker mentality” – an “us against the rest of the Church” mentality.

9.) A focus on what is wrong, versus what is right.

10.) The constant “drum-beat” that Vatican Council II is wrong and that only a return to the Tridentine Mass will help the Church.

I could go on, but that’s a quick 10.
[/quote]

Welcome to the ‘real’ Catholic Church that I grew up with. These are all the reasons why I do seek out a Tridentine Mass at all possible times - except for #7 because the Tridentine Mass is what the Church actually instructs!

Please don’t give up the Tridentine Mass, you’ll be a better Catholic for it! :thumbsup:

You took the words right out of my mouth. The only reason I post this is I hope some of them see this and try to change their attitude.
I attended the Latin Mass for several years. I loved the mass, the reverence etc… But if there’s one thing I experienced is the absolute coldness and unfriendliness. You are shunned just like if you’re in the Amish community. I’d smile at people and they look away or put their heads down. This wasn’t in the sanctuary but out side of it. In the 4 years I went, only one person said hello to me. There’s a terrible WE, THEM mentality. I don’t consider myself a traditionalist, just a Catholic who loves the Latin Mass. But I had to leave it too. I was getting depressed going there. There is not real community there. In fact, they look down on the word community. You have to be in their clique to be included. Now I actally heard a well-known priest on EWTN say he visited a traditional church and the entire parish shunned him and gave him the cold shoulder. Now I KNOW it’s not my own experience. It’s unfortunate because they are driving people away.

“You can speak in the tongues of angels (Latin) but without charity (love), you are a noisy gong.”

Wow, I haven’t noticed that at all. Granted they aren’t really huggy or kissy. Yes there is a dress code.

Perhaps it is your name?

[quote=Pariah Pirana]Another thread made me think about why I no longer attend the Tridentine Mass here locally:

1.) People bitterly gossiping about those they perceived to be “modernists” prior to the Mass. At least they do it outside.

2.) The very cold reception they gave as a group to visitors who they felt were not dressed appropriately for the Mass.

3.) The intense peer pressure amongst the women (also directed to visiting women) to cover their heads.

4.) The contrived feeling of superiority displayed by more than a few at “coffee” after Mass. (Very few attended, thank goodness.)

5.) The outright hatred voiced towards the “new” Mass.

6.) The gossip directed to the wonderful 80 year old monsignor who went out of his way to celebrate the Tridentine Mass in our parish’s chapel each Sunday.

7.) The general lack understanding of what the Church actually instructs.

8.) A horrible “bunker mentality” – an “us against the rest of the Church” mentality.

9.) A focus on what is wrong, versus what is right.

10.) The constant “drum-beat” that Vatican Council II is wrong and that only a return to the Tridentine Mass will help the Church.

I could go on, but that’s a quick 10.
[/quote]

Just curious, what order did you attend? SSPX, FSSP, Indult? What you described above does happen at certain Traditional Mass locations, but not all.

I think the reason for this is because the devil will always attack at the weak points. Traditonal Catholics are usually strong in the faith, so the devil with either not attack them in that area, or he will try to push them into being too rigid. Very rarely will Traditional Catholics become liberal in their thinking.

Another way I think the devil goes after Traditional Catholics is by making them focus too much attention on certain things such as wearing the right clothes, etc, while neglecting charity. I call this the “Pharisee Syndrome”. They “strain on a gnat and swollow the camel”.

But not all Churches that offer the Latin Mass are like that. Many are really nice. But I am curious where you attended when you experienced that behavior.

Thanks

Gee, do you suppose it is your own attitude that causes you to be shunned? I don’t mean anything personal by that, it’s just that I started going to a Trindentine Mass about six weeks back and the people have been nothing but friendly. The priest did warn me that they had some “characters” in the parish, but to pay them no mind. I either have not run into them or I don’t recognize them.

I found out years ago that my attitude had more to do with how people treat me than their own attitudes. As I walk down the street, I look people in the eye and smile. It is remarkable how many people will say hi and nod.

Another thread made me think about why I no longer attend the Tridentine Mass here locally:

1.) People bitterly gossiping about those they perceived to be “modernists” prior to the Mass. At least they do it outside.

2.) The very cold reception they gave as a group to visitors who they felt were not dressed appropriately for the Mass…

etc., etc., etc.

I’ve never been to the current version of the tridentine mass, but what you’ve described is what I’ve imagined it might be in my mind’s eye.

Your thoughts are credible, as people do go out of their way, an hour or more, to attend the latin mass and separate themselves from the rest of catholicdom to hear the old mass.

I liked the old mass, back in the day, but in 1964 and before, it was the mass heard by everyone, not just a self-selected few. It was a lot more democratic, I think, just like the English mass of today.

Every parish will have an "attitutde or a “personality”. the coldness and cliqueishness is not isolated to a parish celebrating the Tridentine rite, but my observation is that those attitutdes can be found in numerous places.

Some people have a very proscribed vison or attitutde as to what constitutes reverance, and people going to a Tridentine Mass are for the most part going to have some fairly strict, or narrow views as to what the word “reverence” covers.

I have notcied a related issue within these forums, and it comes up in relation to rubrics, and in particular to holding hands during the Our Father. The issue is the number of people who co to Mass and have the idea and attitude that others in the Parish are strangers. I have yet to go to Mass anywhere and sit next to strangers. I have, numerous times - all the time, in fact - sat next to fellow Catholics, often whom I have not yet met. But strangers? I might possibly understand the feeling if one were at Mass in a parish other than one’s own, but if it is one’ s parish, to call the other memebers of the parish strangers? That is an isolationist mentality, and I really can’t understand where it comes from. It is certainly not a pre Vatican 2 mentality; parishes were more stable then as the population was more stable, and din’t move as often as people do now.

Good luck and God bless on finding a community you can worship with, rather than strangers. “Where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am in the midst of them”.

[quote=Kevin Walker]Welcome to the ‘real’ Catholic Church that I grew up with. These are all the reasons why I do seek out a Tridentine Mass at all possible times - except for #7 because the Tridentine Mass is what the Church actually instructs!

Please don’t give up the Tridentine Mass, you’ll be a better Catholic for it! :thumbsup:
[/quote]

The Tridentine Mass is no better or worse than the Pauline Mass most commonly celebrated today.

Actually, I think I’m a better Catholic for not immersing myself in that extremely negative/ignorant environment.

When I attend now once in a while (largely to keep in touch with said monsignor) I make every effort now to ignore those around me who just might be acting in odd ways…

[quote=RSiscoe]Just curious, what order did you attend? SSPX, FSSP, Indult? What you described above does happen at certain Traditional Mass locations, but not all.

I think the reason for this is because the devil will always attack at the weak points. Traditonal Catholics are usually strong in the faith, so the devil with either not attack them in that area, or he will try to push them into being too rigid. Very rarely will Traditional Catholics become liberal in their thinking.

Another way I think the devil goes after Traditional Catholics is by making them focus too much attention on certain things such as wearing the right clothes, etc, while neglecting charity. I call this the “Pharisee Syndrome”. They “strain on a gnat and swollow the camel”.

But not all Churches that offer the Latin Mass are like that. Many are really nice. But I am curious where you attended when you experienced that behavior.

Thanks
[/quote]

An indult Mass (the indult is celebrated by both FSSP and non-FSSP Latin Rite priests.) I would never step foot into an SSPX structure.

The Tridentine Mass is celebrated at my home parish in a chapel which only holds about 150 people. It’s rarely full, however.

I remember having the same experience more than ten years ago. This sense of bitterness was overwhelming. The “bunker mentality” was pervasive.

This was a major turnoff, I had to find another way.

[quote=Pariah Pirana]An indult Mass (the indult is celebrated by both FSSP and non-FSSP Latin Rite priests.) I would never step foot into an FSSP structure.

The Tridentine Mass is celebrated at my home parish in a chapel which only holds about 150 people. It’s rarely full, however.
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Do you mind if I ask you a personal question: What do you think of the Church’s teaching on birth control and Women’s ordinations?

[quote=SnorterLuster]Gee, do you suppose it is your own attitude that causes you to be shunned? I don’t mean anything personal by that, it’s just that I started going to a Trindentine Mass about six weeks back and the people have been nothing but friendly. The priest did warn me that they had some “characters” in the parish, but to pay them no mind. I either have not run into them or I don’t recognize them.

I found out years ago that my attitude had more to do with how people treat me than their own attitudes. As I walk down the street, I look people in the eye and smile. It is remarkable how many people will say hi and nod.
[/quote]

“Gee”, nope.

catholics dividing over a mass language…really…the world has bigger problems my freinds…lets address those…and lets stop bickering like a bunch of pharasees…both massess are approved by God

peace

[quote=RSiscoe]Do you mind if I ask you a personal question: What do you think of the Church’s teaching on birth control and Women’s ordinations?
[/quote]

I follow what the Church teaches on these (and all) issues 100%

As far as what I “think?” The Church says it does not have the authority to ordain women as priests. OK, done deal, no female priests. I wish it would now formally nail-down this issue with respect to the permanent diaconate.

The Church says artificial birth control is intrinsically evil. I obviously concer.

[quote=Pariah Pirana] I make every effort now to ignore those around me who just might be acting in odd ways…
[/quote]

Odd ways? Do you mean like holding hands? Or listening to banjos or clarinets or electric guitars during Mass? Or saying the ‘Our father’ holding the palms up Orans style? Or having the Eucharist dropped into your own hand? Or everybody singing like Protestants? Or the Priest interrupting the Mass to make several announcements? Or the Priest answering his cell phone during Mass? The list of odd ways goes on, but I think I made my point.

[quote=Pariah Pirana]I follow what the Church teaches on these (and all) issues 100%

As far as what I “think?” The Church says it does not have the authority to ordain women as priests. OK, done deal, no female priests. I wish it would now formally nail-down this issue with respect to the permanent diaconate.

The Church says artificial birth control is intrinsically evil. I obviously concer.
[/quote]

Good for you.

[quote=Kevin Walker]Odd ways? Do you mean like holding hands? Or listening to banjos or clarinets or electric guitars during Mass? Or saying the ‘Our father’ holding the palms up Orans style? Or having the Eucharist dropped into your own hand? Or everybody singing like Protestants? Or the Priest interrupting the Mass to make several announcements? Or the Priest answering his cell phone during Mass? The list of odd ways goes on, but I think I made my point.
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Not really, It appears all you did was vent a little anger. The Tridentine Mass was often butchered prior to V2. Recall the 25 minute “Masses” of years past…

[quote=Kevin Walker]Odd ways?.. Or the Priest answering his cell phone during Mass?..
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Your kidding? I have never heard that one. Did you actually see this, or just hear about it?

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