Why is Harry Potter hated by some Catholics for magic when lord of the rings has Gandalf who was a wizard?


#81

Good news! I found a source for the “Harry Potter causing a rise in children interested in Satanism” reports.

Unfortunately for the “Harry is demonic” crowd, it’s from The Onion.


#82

Yes, I have actually been corrected by several posters before this. You are only the latest in a long line of kind and thoughtful literary critics to set me straight. Thank you so much.


#83

This isn’t a thread about other world mythologies.
It is a thread on the differences between Lotr, Narnia, vs Harry Potter.

Please provide the references to where any Lord of the Rings or Narnia character uses occult methods/ terminology, for ‘good.’

This is why Tolkien and Lewis are safer, compared to Harry Potter where occult terminology is used as a literary device for the characters to do ‘good.’
Which can be a danger to younger readers, who are only a click away from discovering the methods behind such occult terminology on the internet,

The occult isn’t real? Unfortunately Jesus condemned in the Bible, and the Catechism here condemns it also as real recourse to demons (which Catholic Exorcists say is the most common cause of demonic oppression)

  • All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone. (CCC 2116)

  • All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others—even if this were for the sake of restoring their health—are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity. (CCC 2117)

The Harry Potter series mentions: astrology, divination, curses, hexes, (as methods of ‘good’ and ‘self defence’, which is a contradiction of Catholic doctrine).


#84

One more time – it’s FICTION. It’s not a series of how-to manuals. Why that is so difficult to understand is beyond me. You may be one of those people who just should not read any fiction at all.


#85

The occult is not fiction.

That is the danger of a literary work, where occult methodology are used for ‘good.’

Tolkien nor Lewis did this.
Neither did Jesus Himself in His storytelling.

I have read the books. But this line should not have been crossed by the author.
The occult is real and its methods cannot be used for ‘good.’

Maybe, readers who understand this, and young readers who are informed of this, will not be likely to ever develop curiousity into the occult.


#86

No divination is real.


#87

So first… funny story about Tolkien. I knew he was Christian, I never knew he was Catholic. When I found out I told my Protestant friends and their response was: OH NO! Now the stories are ruined for me!!!

Because, in their minds, Catholics aren’t Christian.

That said.

I understand, to an extent, the concern with glamorizing the occult, as Harry Potter does. In Tolkien’s work we are in an entirely different world, the creatures are fantastical and don’t exist in our world. In Harry Potter the real world and the fantastical are entertwined which can lead to confusion.

I don’t think people are wrong for choosing not to expose their children to Harry Potter while welcoming Tolkien. I think there are legitimate concerns because of how Harry Potter is structured (and how horribly those teenagers act towards adults and even how horribly the adults act towards the teenagers). I also don’t think people are wrong for choosing to read these books to their kids.

I think ALL things should be taken with consideration. I think it wouldn’t hurt if parents had conversations with kids about what they’ve read. “So in this book they use magic but in the real world that stuff is not the same. You understand, right?”

There is magic and divination and etc in the Bible as well. And yes, it’s usually painted in a bad light but if a parent is open and honest and communicates with their child I think it could be okay.

Just my personal opinion though as a huge fantasy fan who reads countless novels with ‘magic’ in them.


#88

Divination isn’t real?

Divination is recourse to demons. The ouijii board is a form of divination, and is one of the highest roots of demonic possession according to Catholic exorcists.

Quote from the Catechism:

  • All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone. (CCC 2116)

#89

SomeCanadian stated:
‘’

There is magic and divination and etc in the Bible as well. And yes, it’s usually painted in a bad light ‘’

Unfortunately Jesus states in the book of revelation:
‘all workers of magic, divination, sorcery, will be cast into the fires of Hell.’

The occult is always painted as a bad light by catholicism and the Bible,

Because power only comes from God,
Or
Satan.


#90

I said it is real


#92

Earlier in the thread, when the clear Christian allegorical elements of Potter were pointed out, one poster replied that Rowling was simply repackaging the occult in a structure that would appeal to Christians. So really… they’ve already made up their mind that Rowling is leading some massive demonic conspiracy and no real world facts will sway them.

If we do take the author’s words at face value… she has explicitly stated that Wicca has no place in her fictional world while her Christianity inspired the various obvious Christian symbolism.


#93

I tend to think youth having curiosity and dabbling in the occult is an issue in itself and they get interested in it because nobody tells them it’s wrong.

I used to watch Dungeons and Dragons and other cartoons that had magic, read C.S. Lewis and Tolkien and other stories and entertainment that had “magic” but that wasn’t what made me curious about the occult as a teenager. I understood that fantasy was just fantasy. To me the occult was just something I was curious about in itself.

I used to go over to a friend’s house and she had some tarot cards – we didn’t need Harry Potter in the 80s. We were doing what curious teenagers do. I had an ouija board that I brought to school for show and tell as a teenager and even did a “reading” with another in class to show how it “works”. But the kicker here is that my teacher at the time was a Catholic that also went to my church and was even my religious education (CCD) teacher. So I guess as an adult, while I can’t judge them, I wonder why he never said anything, and why my parents never said anything. Probably because they were going along with the “spirit of the times” it just wasn’t taken very seriously and as a Gen X Catholic, my parents trusted that the youth group and CCD classes would be fine, but my religious education was actually very poor. And there lies the issue, at least to me.


#94

Gandalf and the Lord of the rings stress a difference from the powers of good and the powers of evil. Gandalf being a lesser angel and servant of the great Eru Ilúvatar which is the sole source of his power. Harry Potter although I’m sure it has very good intentions and fun for children does infact indirectly promote witchcraft in children. Harry Potter doesn’t stress the difference between the power of God and the powers of evil and portrays magic and witchcraft as something good.


#95

Pshaw

It’s also an eighteen year old article. :laughing::laughing::laughing:


#96

Yep. That’s at least how old those fake stories about satanism & Harry Potter are. :rofl:


#98

I cannot tell you how many Catholic friends of mine use tarot cards and love getting their fortune told. It’s rather disconcerting if I’m honest.

I do think part of it is because we simply don’t talk about these things or if we do it’s in that hysterical way that kids ignore. A calm, frank discussion would do a world of good.


#99

I hate Harry Potter because I developed arachnophobia after watching one of the movies (thanks, Ron).


#100

I think it’s one of those “you’ll either love it or hate it” things. There doesn’t seem to be any in-between. :slight_smile:


#101

It took me four tries to read it. It’s written like a textbook. The first novel is a complete SLUDGE to get through but the next two novels have a bit more action and get a bit more interesting.

But it’s definitely not for everyone. Tolkien definitely did not write with ‘entertaining’ in mind. LOL.


#102

I fell asleep during the second book every few years and never finished it . . . until my oldest at 10 appeared likely to finish before me if I didn’t get moving!

she saw a commercial on Thursday for the movie, told my wife, “Mama, I want see that!” was told that maybe I’d take her if she read the book first . . . and we saw it on Sunday!

(that one taught herself to read at 3 or 4 and has devoured books since . . . the next had no interest in reading . . . until one night we called up to turn the lights out [we required her to read before bed] and she asked if she could finish the chapter [uh, Yes!!!] It was the first Harry Potter book . . . )

hawk


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