Why is Intelligent Design not offered in schools?


#1

Call me dumb or whatever, but why isn’t intelligent design taught in schools along with evolution, so the kids can decide what is more believable? How do public school educators have such a stronghold on denying discussion of intelligent design to even be discussed? Is it the parents of the children who are against this or what? I just don’t understand this. Would someone more informed please explain this to me. Thanks.


#2

[quote=kyleforu]Call me dumb or whatever, but why isn’t intelligent design taught in schools along with evolution, so the kids can decide what is more believable? How do public school educators have such a stronghold on denying discussion of intelligent design to even be discussed? Is it the parents of the children who are against this or what? I just don’t understand this. Would someone more informed please explain this to me. Thanks.
[/quote]

Very simple. ID is not science, it is religion. Science only deals with falsifyable ideas, that is propositions which can be proven false, which can be tested by experiments. The concept of “Intelligent Design” cannot. That is the reason. Many people believe in astrology. Does that mean that astrology should be discussed? Many people believe that the Earth is about 6000 years old. Does it mean that such a proposition should be included in a science class?


#3

[quote=kyleforu]Call me dumb or whatever, but why isn’t intelligent design taught in schools along with evolution, so the kids can decide what is more believable? How do public school educators have such a stronghold on denying discussion of intelligent design to even be discussed? Is it the parents of the children who are against this or what? I just don’t understand this. Would someone more informed please explain this to me. Thanks.
[/quote]

I think my main objective to it would be, because it really boils down to a religious conversation. There should be separation of church and state.
Intelligent design may be something that should be discussed in a CCD class or maybe in a parochial school.
Just as Catholic schools do not teach evolution, why would public schools teach intelligent design?


#4

[quote=rayne100]I think my main objective to it would be, because it really boils down to a religious conversation. There should be separation of church and state.
[/quote]

I disagree with that. I don’t think that ID should be opposed simply because it is religious. In fact, I wouldn’t have a problem teaching it in some other class, like philosophy.

Intelligent design may be something that should be discussed in a CCD class or maybe in a parochial school.
Just as Catholic schools do not teach evolution, why would public schools teach intelligent design?

What makes you think that evolution isn’t taught in Catholic schools?

[quote=kyleforu]Call me dumb or whatever, but why isn’t intelligent design taught in schools along with evolution, so the kids can decide what is more believable?
[/quote]

As I mentioned to rayne100, teaching ID in a philosophy class is something I could support. However, as Hitetlen noted, ID isn’t science. That is why it should not be taught in science class.

As far as letting children decide which one is more believable, would you really want to teach something using that as a criteria? Or would you rather use science as the criteria for what is taught in science class?

Peace

Tim


#5

[quote=Orogeny]What makes you think that evolution isn’t taught in Catholic schools?

Tim
[/quote]

Because I went to Catholic school and what they taught was a 5 minute explanation of this is what the scientists believe but this is not what we believe.
It was simply not discussed


#6

[quote=rayne100]Because I went to Catholic school and what they taught was a 5 minute explanation of this is what the scientists believe but this is not what we believe.
It was simply not discussed
[/quote]

That’s sad. I always thought a Catholic school education was a quality education. Guess I was wrong.

On the other hand, I know my wife and her two brothers learned about evolution in biology class in their Catholic highschools. Maybe your school was the exception rather than the rule?

Peace

Tim


#7

[quote=Orogeny]That’s sad. I always thought a Catholic school education was a quality education. Guess I was wrong.
[/quote]

I can only tell about the Catholic (and also Protestant) schools in Hungary under the communist regime. They were absolutely superb, outstanding in the quality of their teachings where science was concerned. Of course they had their religious classes, but there was no interference between the two topics. Unfortunately sometimes (not too frequently) the kids from those institutes were rejected when applying to universities, but that was due to the current political climate. Most of the time they were happily accepted, and with good reason.

An old joke (and I just made up the numbers!):
At the entry exam to the university the kid of a party executive is asked: “How many people died in the Second World War?” He answers: “A lot of people”. He is accepted. The next one is the kid of a simple workers, he is asked the same question, and his answer: “About 6 million people”. He is also accepted. Finally a kid from a Catholic high school comes, and his response: “Six million, two hundred twenty five thousand, one hundred and forty seven”. The examiner asks: “The names, please, in alphabetical order!”


#8

[quote=Orogeny]That’s sad. I always thought a Catholic school education was a quality education. Guess I was wrong.

On the other hand, I know my wife and her two brothers learned about evolution in biology class in their Catholic highschools. Maybe your school was the exception rather than the rule?

Peace

Tim
[/quote]

They’re supposed to teach it in school. Especially since they take state money and use state supplied textbooks.
When I was a kid we had some very nice textbooks in grade school but they never seemed to get to the chapters on evolution…just like they never got to the chapters on reproduction. More of a sin of omission rather than commission

Although I did have one of my teachers in Grade school actually say “I’m not descended from a monkey!” Obviously someone who missed the whole point. :rolleyes:

And she was the math teacher…a shame really
Although to be fair to her we had a “science” teacher who told us that if you dropped two objects the heavier one would land first :eek:

Fortunately my high school was much better academically. It was a Christian Brothers school. :thumbsup: But, come to think about it, I forget what they taught about evolution…that may have been just in AP bio :mad:

[quote=kyleforu] Call me dumb or whatever, but why isn’t intelligent design taught in schools along with evolution, so the kids can decide what is more believable?
[/quote]

It has nothing to do with belief it has to do with what is supported by the preponderance of the data. There is no data to support ID
We don’t let the kids decide if chemistry or geometry is believable. I don’t see why an exception should be made for biology. Science isn’t democracy

[quote=kyleforu] How do public school educators have such a stronghold on denying discussion of intelligent design to even be discussed?
[/quote]

They are saying that it is not science and should not be in science class.

[quote=kyleforu] Is it the parents of the children who are against this or what?
[/quote]

The good people of Dover, PA threw the old school board out on its ear and rightly so.

[quote=kyleforu] I just don’t understand this. Would someone more informed please explain this to me. Thanks.
[/quote]

I hope I’ve helped
I think that portions of Judge Jones’ opinion is available on line. That might help you to understand his reasoning


#9

[quote=Orogeny]That’s sad. I always thought a Catholic school education was a quality education. Guess I was wrong.

On the other hand, I know my wife and her two brothers learned about evolution in biology class in their Catholic highschools. Maybe your school was the exception rather than the rule?

Peace

Tim
[/quote]

My Catholic parochial school taught evolution, but it was always taught with the theme that God is the originator of creation. Thanks to the Catholic schooling,I do not get all worked up about evolution because I know I did not come from an ape and that God is the source of all creation. It is the Fundamentalists who are trying to, once again, pry their opinions on everyone else.


#10

[quote=jim1130]My Catholic parochial school taught evolution, but it was always taught with the theme that God is the originator of creation.
[/quote]

That’s good. That’s what they should have been teaching you. By the way, that’s what I believe also.

Thanks to the Catholic schooling,I do not get all worked up about evolution because I know I did not come from an ape and that God is the source of all creation.

Good to see that they got it right!

Peace

Tim


#11

[quote=Hitetlen]Very simple. ID is not science, it is religion. Science only deals with falsifyable ideas, that is propositions which can be proven false, which can be tested by experiments. The concept of “Intelligent Design” cannot. That is the reason. Many people believe in astrology. Does that mean that astrology should be discussed? Many people believe that the Earth is about 6000 years old. Does it mean that such a proposition should be included in a science class?
[/quote]

The study of science should deal with all possible theories. The judge was wrong.


#12

I think evolution, the controversy, the history of it should be taken up in political science class and civics. If they don’t offer these classes as mandatory in High School they should.

Leave the verifiable theories to science class.


#13

[quote=mikew262]The study of science should deal with all possible theories. The judge was wrong.
[/quote]

So phlogiston gets equal time?


#14

[quote=rayne100]I think my main objective to it would be, because it really boils down to a religious conversation. There should be separation of church and state.
Intelligent design may be something that should be discussed in a CCD class or maybe in a parochial school.
Just as Catholic schools do not teach evolution, why would public schools teach intelligent design?
[/quote]

I taught biology in a Catholic high school, and I taught evolution as the system God designed to produce his “final product,” Adam & Eve and, eventually, us. I always pointed out the flaws in Darwinism when we encountered them, and gave a God-centered response; not in a Creationist sense, but in the marevlous mystery God gave us.
If I were teaching biology today, in a pubolic or Catholic school, I would not teach ID. It is not science and does not belong in a science classroom. I also taught religion. I may have mentioned ID in religion class, but wouldn’t have spent more that a day or so on it. That’s about what I spent on creationism.
The solution is to disprove neo-Darwinism. Remember, he wrote The Origin of Species not The Origin of Life. This is the Achilles Heel of Darwinism and the logical point of attack. If we can knock neo-Darwinism out of the water, atheistic science is in deep yogurt.
Something to think about.


#15

[quote=mikew262]The study of science should deal with all possible theories. The judge was wrong.
[/quote]

All possible theories?? Including this one?:

venganza.org/

Explain to me why ID should be taught and this should not.

The judge was right.

Alec
evolutionpages.com


#16

[quote=EnterTheBowser]So phlogiston gets equal time?
[/quote]

You are being silly. I’m talking theories that are plausible (a significant # of folks feel its possible) and popular at the time.

As an atheist, your feelings on ID are obvious, but in the minority.


#17

[quote=hecd2]All possible theories?? Including this one?:

venganza.org/

Explain to me why ID should be taught and this should not.

The judge was right.

Alec
evolutionpages.com
[/quote]

A Flying Spaghetti Monster invented the universe? You are comparing this silliness to a theory thats growing more in acceptance everyday?

If you can’t be serious, then don’t post.


#18

If no one has noticed, a court has ruled that id is in fact religious dogma, and not science.

Id is simply a more complex watchmaker’s argument, nothing more which in and of itself makes it a religious dogma.


#19

[quote=mikew262]A Flying Spaghetti Monster invented the universe? You are comparing this silliness to a theory thats growing more in acceptance everyday?

If you can’t be serious, then don’t post.
[/quote]

I am being utterly serious, and you don’t get to decide whether I post or not… From a scientific point of view the FSM hypothesis carries equal weight with the ID hypothesis. They both postulate supernatural causes that lie outside science. Who gets to decide which supernatural explanation is ‘serious’ and can be taught in science class and which is not. Behe? Dembski? You? Henderson?

All established scientific bodies worldwide, and the overwhelmingly vast majority of scientists, as Jones pointed out, reject ID as science.

You said ‘all possible theories’ should be taught. So you didn’t really mean that? Just the ones you approve of?

Alec
evolutionpages.com


#20

[quote=mikew262]You are being silly. I’m talking theories that are plausible
[/quote]

ID doesn’t meet the definition of a theory

[quote=mikew262](a significant # of folks feel its possible) and popular at the time.
[/quote]

science isn’t a democracy

Judge Jones didn’t say that ID was or wasn’t true (and rightfully so since that is not his place) all he said was that it isn’t for the science class


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