Why is it better to be Catholic?


#207

I think Catholics and Orthodox both share a lot to claim fullness. But the thing that makes me depart from Orthodox is that they kowtowed to divorce laws (apparently for their rulers). Which isn’t all that different than the Anglican church… but the Anglicans went way off the rails because it was tied to the Reformation as well.

This is unchangeable, and straight out of Christ’s teachings.


#208

How do you know your interpretation of Scripture accurately represents Christ’s intentions?


#209

How do you know he truly did not? Scripture says there is lots of stuff he did that was not written down. In the old testament times when a King gave “The keys” to a person that makes that person his representative. When the one who held the keys for the king died, the keys were passed on to someone else. Thus, the current pope has “The Keys” The Jewish community who were the first Christians knew what Christ meant when he said “And I will give to you the keys to the kingdom of heaven” to St. Peter in the 16th chapter of Matthew. It is in these modern times that “And I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven” would need a lot more explaining to make sense of since people do not generally talk like that anymore. The papacy is very much in The Bible here and in other places. What Christ never said was that it would take 1500 years for someone to truly get what he meant right for the first time.


#210

This question assumes that Scripture might be insufficient in certain ways. But ultimately, Scripture contains exactly what God intends for His church; no more, and no less. As to the interpretation of it, I’m not claiming that every person who reads the bible will understand it correctly. But that is why the witness of the Holy Spirit is necessary for His people to understand what they need to understand. Jesus promised His people that He wouldn’t leave them as orphans. He would send the “helper” (the Holy Spirit) to the church to serve God’s purposes in guiding it. So, even if I don’t correctly understand any of the important parts in the bible, God’s purpose isn’t diminished in any way. God will save ALL of those whom the Father has given to Him.


#211

I just want to point to you how ridiculous your questions are.

You do not know what Jesus think, ok? Some of the things you know about Jesus, are what the apostles told you, right?

So do not come around saying Jesus did not think this or Jesus thought it is like this or that. Don’t speculate.

We are Christians today because of the apostles. Without them you would not know Jesus, if they did not tell you or me.

Remember, the apostles. They were the people who communicated / handed to us what Jesus wanted, who and what he is.

You will do fine if you take the words of the apostles seriously. Catholics believe in the apostles, and trace their belief from the tradition of the apostle.

So there you have it - the Pope, as we know it now.


#212

As a Catholic I don’t find Scripture lacking or insufficient; I see the papacy clearly within Matthew’s Gospel. I simply recognize the reality that the Church Fathers and not a few scholars perceived, that Christianity was built on a triune foundation of Apostolic Teaching, Sacred Scripture and the authority of the Church. To suggest otherwise is to introduce a dichotomy that simply never existed within the Early Church and does not exist to this day in the Catholic Church.


#213

Paul himself talks about traditions handed down, both in word and writing [2 Thess 2:15]

But even common sense would say as much. If I was managing a group project or something, not everything I wrote in email was the sum total of the project. What about coming into work, day-in, day-out for months on end? That’s all thrown out of the window? I’d fire the people for their incompetence if they thought that :smiley: But this is precisely what Paul did when he came to churches. And every other teacher and Apostle.

By the 1st century, we already got the Didache, an extrabiblical document of basic guidelines for the churches. Where they did get this from? It’s not the Bible, but it’s still orthodox in it’s teaching. And then we get early letters of bishops into the late 1st to the 2nd century. These men talk about the authority handed down to them. You either believe them or not. But the idea that everyone was a fool until 1500 years later is even more preposterous.


#214

I’m curious how you see Objective Truth fitting into this statement.


#215

I learn more about my new faith from these threads than I think anywhere else…CCC and Bible at the ready, guys. Keep 'em coming. I may not be able to answer but I’ve got your back. :heart::rose:


#216

The Bible is Materially sufficient but not formally sufficient. The difference is like this. There is a home depot store. There is everything you need in it to build a house, it is materially sufficient, but unless you have the help of someone who knows what they are doing, you cannot build a house. It is not Formally sufficient. Scripture is the same say. Formally sufficient would mean everything is pretty well clear in its meaning and anyone can understand it and know how to utilize it to its fullest use. That is not scripture. It is hard to understand and not always clear. Thus , why God gave us The Papacy because He wants us to know the full truth to the best that our human minds can grasp. And I would bet all I have that the papacy gets it right more than any other denomination or pastor out there.


#217

I don’t think you REQUIRE Catholicism for salvation. I don’t think salvation is that hard, and that’s one reason why the damned suffered so much. But I also don’t think people understand how their soul will be assaulted at Judgement by the forces of evil making the case for your damnation. That’s why asking for Mary’s help is so important.

The trick is being the best person you can be and understanding God’s plan wholly. And there may be more Protestants going to heaven than Catholics, as my old religion teacher said, given how some Catholics act. You can see all of the excuse-making and eager-to-please attitudes that go on here.


#218

I recognized that protestantism is all over the place. All over. Not just a little bit here, a little bit there, but quite frankly all over the place. Some parts of it are quite simply an embarrassment to protestantism even. I solved this dilemma by being “non-denominational”, which suited me very well for a time, but the cracks began to appear, and quite frankly having been there, protestantism is in a very very serious mess. For me who looked at the papacy as just the papacy standing alone as an institution by itself, it would be fine, but I was looking for in persona Christi, and eventually found it, it has always been there since Jesus Christ said, the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.


#219

I didn’t claim that my reason for trusting in Scripture is based on objective knowledge. You trust in the Traditions of the authorities in Rome, while I trust in the bible. My opening post was not a denial of my own presuppositions regarding my ultimate authority. My church isn’t infallible… period! But neither is your church. I believe that Scripture is infallible, and that the Holy Spirit is willing and able to guide His people to understand God’s word.


#220

I have no objection to church traditions as long as they don’t conflict with Scripture.


#221

Hi SuperLuigi, Did you know that in the past, the CC officially declared that it was altogether necessary to be Catholic in order to be saved? But the infallible authorities have walked that one back…I guess they realized their error, and it was a serious error.


#222

That’s fair. Regardless of your objective or subjective reasons for belief, how do you know the teaching your Pastor pulls from a verse or passage is objectively true? I mean when my Baptist wife says infant baptism is useless and we should do a dedication ceremony instead, how do you objectively say who’s doctrine or interpretation is correct and what Christ is intended?


#223

Incorrect. We trust in Sacred Scripture, compiled by Holy Church, and taught and explained by Holy Church guided by the Holy Spirit. You cannot claim the Bible as your own because it was the Catholic Church who was given the authority by God to define as public revelation.

You can’t steal from our banquet and claim you cooked the food yourself.


#224

Salvation is still only through the Catholic Church. But one need not be in the Catholic Church for salvation. There is only one Church Jesus started. He didn’t scrap His plan and start another salvific plan, despite numerous human failures.


#225

[quote=“nogames, post:206, topic:480198, full:true”]

This doesn’t even make any sense. If we (protestants) need the papacy, we could just stop being protestant and start being Catholic. It’s not rocket science.

Well…how about an explanation from AD 300 or so…from St. Optatus…http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2011/06/st-optatus-on-schism-and-the-bishop-of-rome/

You cannot then deny that you do know that upon Peter first in the City of Rome was bestowed the Episcopal Cathedra, on which sat Peter, the Head of all the Apostles … that, in this one Cathedra, unity should be preserved by all [in qua unica Cathedra unitas ab omnibus servaretur], lest the other Apostles might claim each for himself separate Cathedras, so that he who should set up a second Cathedra against the unique Cathedra would already be a schismatic and a s__inner. Well then, on the one Cathedra, which is the first of the Endowments, Peter was the first to sit.25

Don’t you see the parallel need in Ad 300 to today?

And how about from a protestant who studied the early Church…http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2014/10/does-the-center-hold-the-story-of-fr-albert-scharbachs-journey-from-westminster-theological-seminary-to-catholic-priest/

This was first true for the Early Church. Back to that moment when the papacy made sense in the Westminster library. …this happens to be at the same time that ecclesiology became more defined through the strengthening of the papacy. The broad parallels suggest that this is no mere coincidence. In order to define the faith in the early Church, the center had to hold. That was found through the papacy in the Catholic Church. The need today is no different–both for the broader Church and in our individual lives.

The real question is, did Jesus think that we need a papacy? If so, why didn’t He say something about that.

Does not Matthew 16 ring a bell? How about the name change…do you see the significance of Simon being changed to Cephas…or Peter?

Abram to Abraham……Gen 17:15….Neither shall thy name be called any more Abram: but thou shalt be called Abraham: because I have made thee a father of many nations.

Jacob to Israel….Gen 35……. 10And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel………. 11And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

Simon to Cephas/Peter…Matt 16…
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.”


#226

[quote=“nogames, post:210, topic:480198, full:true”]

This question assumes that Scripture might be insufficient in certain ways. But ultimately, Scripture contains exactly what God intends for His church; no more, and no less.

And where is the chapter and verse is this in the Bible?

As to the interpretation of it, I’m not claiming that every person who reads the bible will understand it correctly.

so you are saying here…there has to be some guidance provided. So the question then is…who shall provide that guidance?

But that is why the witness of the Holy Spirit is necessary for His people to understand what they need to understand.

So…why has this resulted in each Protestant congregation having their own interpretation? How can you tell which is valid and which is the truth?
By what standard will you use?

And second question…does the Holy Spirit guide the Church or the individual?

Jesus promised His people that He wouldn’t leave them as orphans.
Jesus promised a Church…so is this church still existing today?

He would send the “helper” (the Holy Spirit) to the church to serve God’s purposes in guiding it. So, even if I don’t correctly understand any of the important parts in the bible, God’s purpose isn’t diminished in any way. God will save ALL of those whom the Father has given to Him.

Well…how do you know this?


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