This passage doesn’t connect “the fire of testing” (of our works) with purifying us. It tells us that whatever we build on the foundation that already exists will be TESTED, not PURIFIED. How does wood or straw become purified by burning it with fire?
The founder and head of the Catholic church Is Jesus. Only in the Catholic Church can we find truth and the greatest gift Jesus has given to us is the Eucharist where he is truly present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.
It is what indulgence is - that there is temporal punishment for forgiven sin which needs to be done on earth or in the hereafter. Perhaps you do not know what indulgence is and what you know about it is what your church incorrectly tells you about this Catholic doctrine. I think that is the problem. Yes, the problem with discussing about a subject like this is that we even do not know what we are talking about.
“He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor 3:15)
Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43–45).
I’ll tell the deacon and the priest who taught that portion of RCIA, along with the multiple writers of books I’ve read who explain it that way that you disagree.
I’m sure they’ll be thrilled.
What is “the way”?
“The Way” is one of the names of the early church. It is a common talking point among Catholics that the Catholic Church is the church founded by Jesus, and that while the apostles were alive, no other church had yet come into existence.
It is amazing the lengths that people will go to “prove” the existence of purgatory. You are quoting St. Paul, who isn’t discussing anything having to do with purifying us, and then you quote a verse from a non-inspired source that likewise has nothing at all to do with the Catholic teaching of purgation.
Huh…Jesus said He will build a Church…then sent out the apostles to baptize and make disciples of all nations…if the purpose of the Church that Jesus established is not to give salvation to all that He provides
…then what is the purpose of the Jesus establishing a Church?
So the asnwer remains through the Church.
I get the sense that you cannot provide an example of a man centered teaching of the RCC? `
I can only assume that since they were getting their instruction from the apostles, they were getting the pure gospel truths, free from all of the unbiblical stuff that was added later by the Catholic Church. The earliest churches had no concept of a papacy, purgatory, indulgences, or transubstantiation, for example.
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It is amazing the lengths that people will go to “prove” the existence of purgatory. You are quoting St. Paul, who isn’t discussing anything having to do with purifying us,
If 1Cor3:15 is not discussing about purification…then what do you reckon the verse is about?
and then you quote a verse from a non-inspired source that likewise has nothing at all to do with the Catholic teaching of purgation.
Well…how do you know that Maccabees is a non-inspired source? Who decided it is not inspired?
I get the sense that you don’t want to explain specifically WHAT IT IS that the Catholic Church does to save a person from hell.
When in hell…one cannot get out of hell…it is eternal
Me and anyone is here is willing to discuss…but so far, you have not provided an example of a man centered doctrine.
I’ve already told you what this verse is about, and no one wants to deal with my response.
The posts are confusing and jumbled…so can you point specifically to your response?
This passage (1 Cor. 3:11-15) doesn’t connect “the fire of testing” (of our works) with purifying us. It tells us that whatever we build on the foundation that already exists will be TESTED, not PURIFIED. How does wood or straw become purified by burning it with fire?
Here’s the deal. If you will explain specifically WHAT IT IS that the Catholic Church does to cause us to receive Jesus and the salvation that He provides, then I will show you exactly what I mean by a man-centered “gospel” message.
11 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble— 13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day[b] will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
Well…taken all together…this passage speaks of our works in life…in v 13, speaks of the “day”…the day of one’s judgement…will be revealed with fire…and fire will test your work. V15 speaks of work being burned up…and will suffer loss:
The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible explains 1 Corinthians 3:15 in this manner:
…a final stage of purification for those who are destined to heaven but depart from this life still burdened with venial sins or with an unpaid debt of temporal punishment incurred from past sins (i.e., mortal sins already forgiven but imperfectly repented of). Passing through fire is thus a spiritual process where souls are purged of residual selfishness and refined in God’s love (CCC 1030-32).”
The wood and hay…are our residual selfishness and refined in God’s love.
Here is the beautiful and profound way in which Pope Benedict explains in his encyclical, Spe Salvi, how 1 Corinthians 3 illuminates the Church’s teaching on Purgatory:
…If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor 3:12-15). In this text, it is in any case evident that our salvation can take different forms, that some of what is built may be burned down, that in order to be saved we personally have to pass through “fire” so as to become fully open to receiving God and able to take our place at the table of the eternal marriage-feast.
Further…Malachi 3 describes the Lord as a refiner’s fire…Malachi 3:2-3
2 But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears?
“For he is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap; 3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the Lord.
Huh…you do not know what the Catholic Church does? It is out in the open…it baptizes, teaches us to live lives free of sin…and to go and worship Him and receive Him worthily…so what is man-centered about this? `
Nothing like making one’s argument contingent on proof of a point offered by another.
Know who does that? Parents. We’re not kids. Either you have a point, or you don’t. But setting people up - or attempting to set people up (because that’s what this looks like - an attempt at some sort of backhanded entrapment) isn’t how you make a point.
The five solas aren’t stated in the Bible (except for the one ML put there)…but I guess that’s none of my business.
Actually, I can smell the Calvinist proof-texting coming from a mile away. “Man centered” is one of those Calvinist buzzwords used in opposition to the Calvinist position of “monergism”.
You’re right to smell a set-up. He’s not even being subtle about it.