Why is Nestorianism wrong?


#1

After looking at a thread recently, I was curious about this heresy and I looked it up on Wikipedia.

I understand that it teaches that Jesus had two persons (the divine and the human) in the one man and we believe that Jesus is one Person that is fully human and fully divine.

Why was this heresy condemned because it would explain a lot of things such as why Jesus said he did not know the time or the hour of Judgement, and also why he exclaimed, My God My God, why have you forsaken me?


#2

It would explain neither of what you quoted.

It is heresy because it allows separation between God’s and human nature united in Jesus Christ. Consequently, according to Nestorianism, Jesus Christ would not be both fully Divine and fully human all the time as from the moment when He was conceived in Theotokos by the Holy Spirit.


#3

Because “My God My God, why have you forsaken me?” (eelli, eelli lima savahtani) is the first verse of a Psalm (I don’t know the number) and He was voicing the prophecy of destruction of Jerusalem.

why Jesus said he did not know the time or the hour of Judgement

Perhaps it would not be in our interest to know it?

Perhaps Father only knows the hour, since we call the Creator either God (without the reference to the hypostasis/person within the Holy Trinity) or Father, while we don’t say it is Son, or Holy Spirit whom is creator without the reference to Father.


#4

I’ve heard it said that Jesus revealed only those things which are necessary to our salvation, and that He often chose not to make use of His divine knowledge.This would make sense, given that He has both a human will and a divine one, if I’m not mistaken.

Peace,
Dante


#5

In spite of the efforts of Athanasius, Nestorius, who had been elected Patriarch of Constantinople (428), found a loophole to avoid the definition of Nicaea. Nestorius called the union of the two natures a mysterious and an inseparable joining (symapheian), but would admit no unity (enosin) in the strict sense of the word to be the result of this joining (see “Serm.”, ii, n. 4; xii, n. 2, in P. L., XLVIII). The union of the two natures is not physical (physike) but moral, a mere juxtaposition in state of being (schetike); the Word indwells in Jesus like as God indwells in the just (loc. cit.); the indwelling of the Word in Jesus is, however, more excellent than the indwelling of God in the just man by grace, for that the indwelling of the Word purposes the Redemption of all mankind and the most perfect manifestation of the Divine activity (Serm. vii, n. 24); as a consequence, Mary is the Mother of Christ (Christotokos), not the Mother of God (Theotokos). As is usual in these Oriental heresies, the metaphysical refinement of Nestorius was faulty, and led him into a practical denial of the mystery that he had set himself to explain. During the discussion that Nestorius aroused, he strove to explain that his indwelling (enoikesis) theory was quite enough to keep him within the demands of Nicaea; he insisted that "the Man Jesus should be co-adored with the Divine union and almighty God [ton te theia symapheia to pantokratori theo symproskynoumenon anthropon] "(Serm., vii, n. 35); he forcibly denied that Christ was two persons, but proclaimed Him as one person (prosopon) made up of two substances. The oneness of the Person was however only moral, and not at all physical. Despite whatsoever Nestorius said as a pretext to save himself from the brand of heresy, he continually and explicitly denied the hypostatic union (enosin kath hypostasin, kata physin, kat ousian), that union of physical entities and of substances which the Church defends in Jesus; he affirmed a juxtaposition in authority, dignity, energy, relation, and state of being (synapheia kat authentian, axian, energeian, anaphoran, schesin); and he maintained that the Fathers of Nicaea had nowhere said that God was born of the Virgin Mary (Sermo, v, nn. 5 and 6).

More can be found here:

NESTORIANISM


#6

NO!! Jesus is not two persons!! Jesus is a divine person with two natures: A divine nature and a fully human nature. It makes all the difference. Jesus is not some man-bag filled with divine god-gas, nor is he a man possessed by some god, or a man overwhelmed by some god. He is fully God with a human nature.


#7

OKAY! I acknowleged that is a heresy, but I was curious why it was rejected by the Church. Your explanation does not say anything really helpful at all except your personal opinion.

Actaully, just looking at your post again, this really stuck out.

Jesus is a divine person with two natures: A divine nature and a fully human nature.

So we believe that Jesus is a divine Person who obtained fully a human nature, while the Nestorians claimed that the human Jesus contained two natures in him: one was Jesus the man, and one which was the eternal Son? Is this right anyone?

Also, did they teach that when the human nature died, it was never raised? If so, does this mean that the divine nature never need to be raised because the divine nature never died?

I hope you understand me.


#8

Psalm 22:
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?

2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, and am not silent.

3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the praise of Israel.

4 In you our fathers put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.

5 They cried to you and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not disappointed.

6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.

7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:

8 “He trusts in the LORD;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”

9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother’s breast.

10 From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.

12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.

13 Roaring lions tearing their prey
open their mouths wide against me.

14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.

16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.

18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.

19 But you, O LORD, be not far off;
O my Strength, come quickly to help me.

20 Deliver my life from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.

21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.

22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the congregation I will praise you.

23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!

24 For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you will I fulfill my vows.

26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
they who seek the LORD will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!

27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,

28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.

29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.

30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.

31 They will proclaim his righteousness
to a people yet unborn—
for he has done it.


#9

In Nestorianism, Jesus and the Divine Logos were one in will only, the unity was not one of being. Consequently our unity with Christ, as His with the Logos, has to be earned by perfect conformity of our wills to God‘s. C. FitzSimons Allison compares Nestorianism to a train that barrels through the station at full speed – you can get on if by dint of willpower you can run fast enough to catch it, as Jesus did!


#10

Poor OP. Such simple question, so many responses, not a single answer.

Let’s try to put it simply.

If Jesus was two persons, then who was that person who died on the cross?

Of course, that would have been the human person (since the Divine Person, apart of a human nature, cannot die). But if that were the case, then the offering would have been only finite, since a human person is finite. His death would have been unable to redeem the world.

This is why it’s crucial that the One who died on the Cross was a Divine Person, because only God can offer infinite reparation against the infinitely good God. In other words, God had to die.


#11

Good answer, and I would only add to the end of Porthos’ answer; God was the sacrificial victim, no human sacrifice could accomplish redemption.

But, y’all don’t feel bad about all the somewhat confusing answers in this thread, the Church itself took hundreds and hundreds of years of studying and debating this issue, then finally declared, “Jesus is true God and true man, one in being with the Father, born of a virgin”. Most of the early heresies had to do with this difficult concept. Even today, for some of us hard-headed humans, some still have a hard time with it, just ask the JWs and the LDS.

Peace to All


#12

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