Why is "the end" so complicated? (Edited title)


#1

I think this is the right forum. I read my Bible every morning and evening, one chapter from the OT in the morning and one from NT in the evening, and I have reached The Book of Revelations and I did start to ponder about one thing. Why is "the end" so complicated?


#2

It is a very complex book because it has numerous senses in just about every passage, Historical, Christalogical, Liturigical, Future, Moral. There are some wonderful commentaries and books on Revelation, but nobody has that book mastered, because a portion of it has mutiple senses and one of those senses has future meaning to it that won't be completely revealed until God permits it. I have studied this book for years and have studied commentaries on it from about every century, and the greatest minds of the Church will usually humbly offer their best attempt, but are humble about it. Anything less than humility on Revelation is pure arrogance.


#3

1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

(Rev. 1)

The difficulties in nailing down the meaning are (1) determining the meanings of the symbolism, and (2) determining the time period. Regarding (1), some believe the seven churches are just that--churches in existence at the time Saint John wrote the book. Others believe the seven churches are descriptions of the church from the beginning until today. And there are other interpretations as well.

Regarding (2), some believe all of the events have already taken place by the first century AD, others believe some have taken place but many others are yet to occur. And there are other interpretations as well.

What makes me wonder are the words, "Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words..." For how can one be blessed by something he does not yet understand?

:shrug:


#4

The mighty book of Revelation, the book that predicts our future ! Read and pray, much serenity will fill your soul.

Come Lord Jesus, come !


#5

Dr. Beale's commentary on the book of Revelation is a very important work when considering the vast number of allusions to the OT that are found in the book of Revelation.
The book of Revelation is a definite affirmation of the OT prophetic books.

Dr. Beale presents a more or less amillennial viewpoint on the book of Revelation.


#6

The Book of Revelation was written at a time when the Catholic Church was being persecuted by its enemies, especially the pagan Roman Empire. It was probably written in such a "complicated" or cryptic style to help protect any Christian who might be caught with a copy or proclaiming its contents publicly. It would have been much safer for a Christian to be found carrying a copy or publicly proclaiming a story about the overthrow of a woman named Babylon than a story about the coming overthrow of the pagan Roman Empire.


#7

Revelation.

This Book shows how the virgin church turned a whore, i.e., how its doctrine got corrupt. The angel revealing this Book is none other than the Holy Ghost, he, twice, interdicts one's bowing down to him, instructing the worshiping of God instead. So the Holy Spirit isn't God. The Beast is Rome & its descendants. There's a thousand years reign of Christ with his saints. They, those who live in heaven, the two witnesses, the judges, the two olive trees, shall take vengeance on those who live on earth: killing with the mouth, the lake of fire, Gehenna, the fire baptism, the second death. The Book of Life is Christ himself.

The Revelation makes clear that no dead, prior to Jesus' second coming, is active (they are to rest till the number of their brethren is fulfilled). So prayers to the saint are vain, they provoke the dreadful anger of God most high, whose name is to be praised & feared. God isn't our friend, He is the enemy of His people, hence Israel (what is the meaning of Israel?). Amen.

In fact, the "Christians" Jesus, that thing hanging on a crucifix is the coming man of sin who shadows Jesus like Satan shadows the Holy Spirit. Who, in accordance with their religion, shall sit in the temple of God as God himself. An abomination resting where it shouldn't indeed. The mark of the Beast is the crucifix. 666 is related to man. Man is man & woman i.e., 666 is related to 2. Now, in base 2, 666 = 1010011010, this is 10 symbols, again man's feature. 10100 is the contradiction of 11010, again man's contradiction of man & woman.


#8

Thank you all for your answers, they all make sense, and they are helpful.


#9

[quote="Lasting_faith, post:1, topic:339601"]
I think this is the right forum. I read my Bible every morning and evening, one chapter from the OT in the morning and one from NT in the evening, and I have reached The Book of Revelations and I did start to ponder about one thing. Why is "the end" so complicated?

[/quote]

Revelation really isn't that difficult. The key is that the Bible is a story.

Reading one chapter from the New Testament in the evening and one from the Old Testament in the morning is not the way to follow the story. You are expected to have read and understand everything that comes before.

Do you know who the individual prophets are? Where each of them operated - the northern nation of Israel or the southern nation of Judea? Do you know that Israel split into two nations after Solomon? Do you understand the role of the judges in the book of Judges? Do you understand the prophecies of Daniel and Jerimiah? Can you find the locusts with long hair mentioned in Revelation in the Old Testament as well?

I'm not asking this to challenge but to illustrate that the Book of Revelation is at the end of the Bible for a reason. We have to understand the story before we can understand the end of the story.

-Tim-


#10

"Why" Why do people rip your question to shreds? Please don't mind, too much.

I finally broke down and read a book on this subject: "Coming Soon, Unlocking the Book of Revelation and the subtitle has a subtitle] and Applying Its Lessons Today" by Michael Barber.

Barber uses Scott Hahn's distracting habit of frequently trying to put funny subtitles on successive sections of the book. Aside from this feature which I don't like, he otherwise makes a lot of sense.

He takes the point of view that most of Revelation has already taken place.

He overlooks the Protestant argument that Rev 22:18 endorses a Bible-alone type of Christianity.


#11

[quote="Lasting_faith, post:1, topic:339601"]
I think this is the right forum. I read my Bible every morning and evening, one chapter from the OT in the morning and one from NT in the evening, and I have reached The Book of Revelations and I did start to ponder about one thing. Why is "the end" so complicated?

[/quote]

. The "end of the aeon" means the end of an era, not the end of the world. The latter was a mistaken understanding, as I understand it. so if people thing "the world" is going to end, thats incorrect. It is referring to one era ending, followed by a new era.

. Another aspect has to do with Daniel's prophecies about the time of the end. The meaning of his visions were "sealed" to him, and God said the meaning would be known at the end of the times, times, and a half. Each "time" referred to a period of 360 years.

. Hence, time = 360, times = 720 (2 times), and a half (of time) = 180 Total = 1260

. This figure of 1260 is also mentioned in Revelation in several ways. 42 months of 30 days (years) = 1260 Also, 3 1/2 days (of years) again = 1260


#12

[quote="Lasting_faith, post:1, topic:339601"]
I think this is the right forum. I read my Bible every morning and evening, one chapter from the OT in the morning and one from NT in the evening, and I have reached The Book of Revelations and I did start to ponder about one thing. Why is "the end" so complicated?

[/quote]

God didn't intend it to be read that way.

We can understand some things about the Bible that way but we will never understand the story that way. The Bible is a story - the story of salvation. Reading one chapter here and another there is like reading the Harry Potter series by alternating chapters between the various books - you will know a bunch of stuff about Harry Potter but will never understand the story.

There are 14 books in the Bible which contain the narrative thread. These 14 books tell the story of salvation:

[LIST=1]
*]Genesis (Early World & Patriarchs)
*]Exodus (Egypt and Exodus)
*]Numbers (Desert Wanderings)
*]Joshua (Conquest & Judges)
*]Judges (Conquest & Judges)
*]1 Samuel (Royal Kingdom)
*]2 Samuel (Royal Kingdom)
*]1 Kings (Royal Kingdom & Divided Kingdom)
*]2 Kings (Divided Kingdom & Exile)
*]Ezra (Return)
*]Nehemiah (Return)
*]1 Maccabees (Maccabean Revolt)
*]Luke (Messianic Fulfillment) or Matthew (King and his Kingdom)
*]Acts (The Church)
[/LIST]

These books are essential to telling the storyline. All the other books are supplemental to these 14 books. For example, Job is supplemental to Genesis but it is placed half way through the Bible just before the Psalms. Another example is Leviticus - people complain that it is difficult to understand because they don't realize that it is a training manual supplemental to exodus.

Stick with the 14 narrative books and supplement those books with the other books where appropriate. Get into a good Bible study like The Bible Timeline by Jeff Cavins/Great Adventure.

-Tim-


#13

I didn't realize that this was an old thread but will keep my previous post in case someone finds it useful.

-Tim-


#14

I personally read something from the old testament, something from Psalms and/or the wisdom books, and something from the new testament each morning. I have no problem following the story as I do the old and new testament sequentially, and often the Holy Spirit arranges it so all three readings are relevant to eachother in ways that stress that the Bible is indeed a story in which old and new testament are intricately intertwined. (even the Psalms etc. are "part of the story".) I see nothing wrong with reading the Bible in this way.

Just an observation for Spockrates. The quote attributed to Spock was actually originally said by another fictional character, Sherlock Holmes.

#15

[quote="COPLAND_3, post:2, topic:339601"]
It is a very complex book because it has numerous senses in just about every passage, Historical, Christalogical, Liturigical, Future, Moral. There are some wonderful commentaries and books on Revelation, but nobody has that book mastered, because a portion of it has mutiple senses and one of those senses has future meaning to it that won't be completely revealed until God permits it. I have studied this book for years and have studied commentaries on it from about every century, and the greatest minds of the Church will usually humbly offer their best attempt, but are humble about it. Anything less than humility on Revelation is pure arrogance.

[/quote]

yes, and infinite meaning and interpretation if truth through God's love is understood.

God bless


#16

[quote="aragonjohn1, post:15, topic:339601"]
yes, and infinite meaning and interpretation if truth through God's love is understood.

God bless

[/quote]

Cont.

So therefore all of the interpretations must be simple or very simple for those who have the

virtue of love, also better or worse for those with worldliness.

God bless


#17

[quote="COPLAND_3, post:2, topic:339601"]
I have studied this book for years and have studied commentaries on it from about every century, and the greatest minds of the Church will usually humbly offer their best attempt, but are humble about it. Anything less than humility on Revelation is pure arrogance.

[/quote]

Will you be willing to have a look at this, you that have so many years studying the Book of Revelation:

newtorah.org

It has a commentary there....

It has in the back of the book cover some comments of three specialists on the Book of Revelation also in the Catholic Church. ( Fr. Ugo Vanni, who is from the Gregorian University in Rome and also is a part of some commission on Scripture in the Vatican.)

Many thanks,
Gloria


#18

[quote=Lasting faith] I have reached The Book of Revelations and I did start to ponder about one thing. Why is “the end” so complicated?
[/quote]

Im inclined to think that Revelation was written in a symbolic style because the Roman Empire would not have been too thrilled about a ‘Kingdom of God’ getting started when they were supposed to be in charge. If John had been too straight forward it would have been burned before the ink was dry.


#19

[quote="Cyberseeker, post:18, topic:339601"]
Im inclined to think that Revelation was written in a symbolic style because the Roman Empire would not have been too thrilled about a 'Kingdom of God' getting started when they were supposed to be in charge. If John had been too straight forward it would have been burned before the ink was dry.

[/quote]

There is of course much symbolism in the Book of Revelation, even as in the Book of Daniel, which was hidden from his own eyes to understand. Not until the time of the end would the mysteries of meaning be decoded, and not before.

Daniel speaks of the 2300 days (years) which, according to numerous scholars, concluded in the year 1844 AD, which "happens" to coincide with the year 1260 AH, of the Muslim calendar. The latter number appears repeatedly in Daniel and Revelation in various forms: time (360), times (720), and a half (180) totals 1260, as does 42 months of 30 days = 1260, as well as the 3 1/2 days (years of 360s) being 1260, and of course the number itself appearing as 1260, and followed by 1280, and 1290 as successive dates which, converted to the Christian Calendar are 1844 and 1863. (1290 is actually the year 1280 AH, which originated ten years after the public declaration of Muhammad in the year 613 AD)

. The numbers have been scrutinized thoroughly, yet not understood, due to the bias against interpreting them in light of Islamic history, which is too much feared to be dealt with in prophecy, and simply dismissed.

.


#20

[quote="Lasting_faith, post:1, topic:339601"]
I think this is the right forum. I read my Bible every morning and evening, one chapter from the OT in the morning and one from NT in the evening, and I have reached The Book of Revelations and I did start to ponder about one thing. Why is "the end" so complicated?

[/quote]

First of all we must understand that the** Revelation of Jesus Christ is prophetic**, and prophetic revelations are explained by prophets. If they were so simple, the devil will have make sure that this Revelation was not included in the Cannon of the New Testament, because it speaks of how he is going to be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity. But I believe that in the moment the prophetic stops been prophetic and becomes reality, everyone will understand everything.

To read the Revelation we are ask to have 'wisdom' (Rev 13:8). Therefore let us pray to God for that and to send prophets to his Church, in these difficult and immoral times that we are living in. We need the two witnesses to be revealed.

In the love of Christ and of His Revelation,
Gloria


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