Why is the latin mass such a big deal?

only the prayers involved with the meal must be in hebrew. jesus’ prayers at the last supper were not traditional passover prayers and therefore would most likely (although you are correct in saying that it’s not for sure) have been in aramaic.

As a cradle catholic/fallen away/reaccepted/“revert”-ed Catholic, I had never experienced the Ancient Sung Mass until this January. I was overwhelmed.

The reverence, not only for the Eucharist itself, but for the whole of the Holy Mass, expressed through:

The beauty of the Schola with their clear devotion to rehearsal, at the parish I attended ((Divine Mercy Parish). The devotion of the parish community shown with a lineup for confession, Rosary before Mass, started and completed in time to permit the required 15 minutes of silence before Mass begins. This is every week, not just a ‘special occasion’ either.

The silence and kneeling in prayer by all those attending nearly all the time.

The expression of love and obedience of the ladies and girls especially young ladies and girls present in their neat, attractive and modest dress, with many wearing beautiful lace headcoverings which are no longer recommended but are nonetheless a beautiful expression of piety and acknowledgement of the nature of true femininity in the presence of Christ. Some of them even wore gloves which I think are more of a fashion statement, but still hearken back to a time when the Mass was perhaps better understood and practiced. These are no cowering, subservient women, either. They are doing this because they go out of their way to do what they want to.

This tiny parish in only three years already has a vocation to the priesthood who studied at the seminary of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

Whenever I go to Mass at this parish, I never feel concerned that I may see a liturgical abuse. I think often what happens is that people know when they attend an Ancient Mass (what many people often refer to as the “Tridentine Mass”) the ones responsible love the Mass so deeply, they would never allow the possibility of an abuse. Cardinal Ratzinger told Raymond Arroyo of EWTN that the recommendations of the second Vatican Council were “poorly implemented.”

We don’t start figuring this out until we are older and wiser.

I know from 12 years in the parish I now attend that suggesting concerns to others in my parish about liturgical abuses would elicit shrugs or scorn. Meanwhile people wander in and sit down in front of the most holy sacrament of the altar to chat. How do we get this reverence without resorting to another committe, ripe to debate their opinions with each other?

It’s not about the Latin, although I believe that the EWTN daily Mass is an exellent model of what the Novus Ordo Mass should be, complete with Latin in its proper place of pride for the Eucharistic Prayer. I find the confidently correct reverence I seek in a parish for the Mass that celebrates the Ancient (or so-called “Tridentine”) Mass.

:amen: I love a reverent sung mass, in English or Latin.

Good Morning Church

I am wondering how many posters actually remember the Latin Mass prior to Vatican II? From what I have seen, many younger posters here.

I remember it quite vividly as I converted back then. I do remember a few things that would indicate to me that a lot of folks were not paying a lot of attention to Mass.
Many folks were praying the Rosary during Mass. A lot were reading stacks of Prayer Cards. It was common to see older men sleeping. I am not joking. I was in Los Angeles in big parishes.
People are people and behave pretty much the same everywhere.
Lots of conversation after Mass, much of it concerning what so an so was wearing.
On the other hand, the Priest seemed to know more folks by name. It annoys me that today, a Priest can be in a smaller parish for 5 or more years and still can’t call many of his parishioners by name or know the childrens names. What father wouldn’t know his kids names.

In any event, I can go to Mass in any country in the world and know exactly what is happening and know all the prayers by heart.

Does anyone believe God actually cares what language the Mass is celebrated in??? He is the one who counts.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_12v.gif

For one thing, there were less abuses. Actually, I’ve seen people sleep during the NO too, and talking, so the “New Mass” means nothing to them.

There are some churches of the East, like the Chaldean (modern day Iran and Iraq) who use Aramaic. Words like “Amen”, Alleluia, or Hosanna are Hebrew.

[quote=robertaf]Good Morning Church

I am wondering how many posters actually remember the Latin Mass prior to Vatican II? From what I have seen, many younger posters here.

I remember it quite vividly as I converted back then. I do remember a few things that would indicate to me that a lot of folks were not paying a lot of attention to Mass.
Many folks were praying the Rosary during Mass. A lot were reading stacks of Prayer Cards. It was common to see older men sleeping. I am not joking. I was in Los Angeles in big parishes.
People are people and behave pretty much the same everywhere.
Lots of conversation after Mass, much of it concerning what so an so was wearing.
On the other hand, the Priest seemed to know more folks by name. It annoys me that today, a Priest can be in a smaller parish for 5 or more years and still can’t call many of his parishioners by name or know the childrens names. What father wouldn’t know his kids names.

In any event, I can go to Mass in any country in the world and know exactly what is happening and know all the prayers by heart.

Does anyone believe God actually cares what language the Mass is celebrated in??? He is the one who counts.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_12v.gif
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I think that what we need is to bring back the solemnity of the mass and not necessarily the latin iteself.

I used to serve at the latin mass as a youth, prior to Vatican ll. And I can honestly say that I memorized all of the prayer responses in latin but I did not really understand the significance of what my efforts were all about.

I have in recent months attended a couple Tridentine latin masses in Rockford, IL and although enjoyable I found it a little perplexing in that the language although beautiful it still doesn’t work for me.

What I really would look forward to would be the bringing back of the true interpretations of the latin rite prayers vs the english adapted eucharistic prayers that we have today. I find the english interpretive form of the pre-vatican ll prayers more enjoyable and definitely more beautifully written.

[quote=Newvert]Note to bengal_fan: At the risk of telling you something you already know, Marcus Grodi has The Coming Home Network, specifically for those who are leaving Protestant ministry and entering the Church. As I understand, they are well accustomed to helping those whose families don’t always understand. Have you thought about contacting him?
[/quote]

Newvert,
i have thought about it. i am not quite there yet, but when the time comes you can bet i’ll contact him and be involved with anything i can (i might be unemployed so imagine all the free time!! :smiley: ). thank you for the suggestion.

Latin is not the main concern or issue, otherwise they could of translated the 1962 Mass in the vernacular and left it alone:

Here is an objective comparision of the two Missals in English:
latin-mass-society.org/missals.htm

See thread titled Tridentine Mass Trivial Pursuit

Bengal fan-

I, a plain ol’ Catholic, would be completely lost. I remember as a kid being able to repeat certain Latin phrases. I had no idea what I was saying. Maybe that’s where I developed my critical opinion of speaking in tongues. Before any of you Catholics start slamming me, I already know “Latin” and “tongues” aren’t the same.

All of us can’t be theologians. Isn’t this why Jesus often relayed ideas in parables?

Still hoping you convert to Catholicism and the Steelers.

I do not insist on the Latin Mass for all, i think the vernacular is just fine. However i do prefer Latin because I myself am a Latin student and I have a deep love of it. I also love the sense that my ancestors (I’m Italian) heard the same Mass so it gives me a sense of unity with my ancestors.

Latin is not the main issue.

[quote=Tanais]I do not insist on the Latin Mass for all, i think the vernacular is just fine. However i do prefer Latin because I myself am a Latin student and I have a deep love of it. I also love the sense that my ancestors (I’m Italian) heard the same Mass so it gives me a sense of unity with my ancestors.
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i think this is my favorite response yet! i studied latin for 7 years (and then refreshed a lot recently) and can understand your point (even though “church” latin is not exactly the same thing as the church pronounces certain letters and words slightly differently that it was originally pronounced). and i do understand you wanting to feel connected to your past and i appreciate you knowing that others would like to relate to the present and future more (not that one is better than the other).

[quote=bengal_fan]i understand the beauty of the latin language and the history behind it (this is coming from some one with 7 years of latin instruction), but i don’t understand why so many people want the latin mass to be the only one available. (i am protestant by the way). it seems that if people wanted a true historical service they would do it in aramaic or greek as opposed to latin. if some people could give me some insight on this i would really appreciate it. thanks.
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It’s no different than the rankor you will find in a protestant church when the youth want more “praise and worship music” and the old fogies get all bent out of shape because they think the youth are ruining the church… or in some protestant churches someone or several yell out AMEN at the point a preacher makes in a sermon, and I have seen some think that those that express themselves in that fashion are a little “out of the loop” so to speak…

It’s Tradition with a capital “T”… there are still a lot of us pre-vatican II catholics who appreciated the Latin Mass… we think it is beautiful and we miss it… Granted, some of the old folgies don’t like change, but most have accepted it… Change is still a hard thing to handle from time to time… just be patient… most of us will be gone in a few years… that’s the beauty of it… what’s old is new again and there are churches that still celebrate the Latin Rite.

You will always have those in Any church that would rather rule than to serve… started with Martin Luther… :thumbsup:

For 1500 yrs, there no one saw a need for a revolution or catastrophic change.

IF it aint broke, do not fix it!!!

for 1900 years the Traditional Latin Mass was the standard in the Church. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it Iohannes

[quote=Catholic Eagle]for 1900 years the Traditional Latin Mass was the standard in the Church. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it Iohannes
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sorry, but you are wrong here. the 1st century, new testament church was not in the habit of doing things in latin. the mass was in the vernacular (greek, aramaic, and even some of the “vulgar” languages as the gospel spread). there have been many parts of the catholic church which never celebrated mass in latin (eastern catholic) so to say that “that’s the way Jesus did it” is wrong. for all we know, he didn’t even speak latin (which was most likely the case as latin was more a written than spoken language and mostly the elite spoke it which is why it “evolved” into so many languages, like the romance languages to name a few). now, on the other hand, latin did become the official language of the church a few hundred years after Christ and so i understand that there is historical significance so i am not trying to say “get rid of the latin mass” i am saying that people who say that is the proper way to worship or the eucharist cannot be consecrated in any other language just don’t have a grasp on church teaching or early church history.

So you are telling me they didn’t speak Latin in Rome? Latin was the Roman vernacular.[Every prostitute and bum spoke Latin in Rome] Latin was the standard language of our Church[sorry i didn’t mention the East].Latin was the vernacular of the people of Rome. The slaves and foreign visitors to Rome spoke Greek or their native languages.[the Roman vernacular wasn’t Greek, if it was thats like saying the New Yorker’s vernacular is French or Spanish]. Anyways i wasn’t talking about linguistics.[Sir you really need to study a little bit more about inguistics]

The vernacular was shunned in almost every Catholic church until Vatican II[Eastern and Western Catholicism , besides Roman Catholics having Latin the Greek Byzantine Catholics have ancient Greek,Slavic Byzantine Catholics have Slavonic,Romanian Byzantine Catholics have old Romanian,Maronites have Old Arabic,Chaldean Catholics have Aramaic and others i forgot]. I didn’t say Jesus said the first Mass in Latin. 1900 years is about from 60 to 1960. 60 is about 27 years after Christ’s death. The Church had already spread to Rome.

Also sir if i may tell you. Your knowledge of Church history somehow forgets Rome and goes on with an attack on persons who love the Traditional Latin Mass.
Yes there were other liturgical languages besides Latin and Latin is not the only one. But that does not give justification for English in the Mass. This is an error that started during the Deformation. In 1500, Most Christians,[except proto-Protestants] Catholics and Schismatics used their ancient liturgical languages not the “language of the slaves”.

Whew, how to keep up with all the posts?

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