Why isn't Good Friday a Holy Day of Obligation


#21

[quote="porthos11, post:19, topic:314955"]
It is, and it's a very good one. Going to Mass out of love of God is ideal and should be embraced by every Catholic. But not all Catholics are yet at that level of love for God, so the Church, knowing that without prayer no one can be saved, imposes the obligation so that if they don't get saved out of love for God, they will at hopefully least get there starting with the fear of hell. It is a minimum, just as imperfect contrition is sufficient for absolution, but perfect contrition is ideal.

Without the obligation, more will stop going to Mass; this is a given and more will be in sorrier states than they are now. The Church's imposing of an obligation is in conformity with its highest law, which is the salvation of souls.

[/quote]

Would you agree with me that they might wanna consider giving it a better name?

Obligation is a synonym for burden and that's how people might think of it, which is wrong.

I can't think of a better term but they can surely invent one and not change the essence of the rule.


#22

[quote="PazzoGrande, post:5, topic:314955"]
I think it's just a bad choice of words.

I'm guessing they're getting that word from the Latin and it doesn't have the same ring in modern English. It happens a lot in the Church -- a lot of words that are derived from Latin but come off the wrong way.

There's probably a more appropriate word for it. Might not be a bad idea if they changed it.

[/quote]

Maybe just a "holy day" would be more like it:shrug: Speaking of not having the same ring consider "Mardi Gras" vs "Fat Tuesday" The two terms refer to the same day but definitely don't have the same ring!:rolleyes:


#23

Last Good Friday was the first since I returned to the Church and imagine my surprise when I learned that Good Friday was not a Holy Day of Obligation. Growing up, there was no questions asked that us goods would go to the Good Friday service.


#24

In French they have "fête d’obligation ou de précepte: commémoration imposée par l’Église". Similarly, in Spanish they have "fiesta de precepto" or "fiesta de obligación". Both terms are used and this corresponds to the Latin original, as defined by the Catechism:

Diei Dominicae obligatio

2180 Praeceptum Ecclesiae Legem Domini determinat et concrete definit. « Die Dominica aliisque diebus festis de praecepto fideles obligatione tenentur Missam participandi ». 124 « Praecepto de Missa participanda satisfacit qui Missae assistit ubicumque celebratur ritu catholico vel ipso die festo vel vespere diei praecedentis ». 125

2181 Eucharistia dominicalis totum christianum fundat et confirmat exercitium. Hac de causa, fideles obligantur ut Eucharistiam participent diebus de praecepto, nisi seria excusentur ratione (exempli gratia, aegritudine, infantium cura) vel a suo proprio dispensentur pastore. 126 Qui deliberate hanc *obligationem *transgrediuntur, grave committunt peccatum.

obligo > ob+ligo = to bind up, bandage, swathe
praeceptum = teaching; precept; order, command


#25

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:22, topic:314955"]
Maybe just a "holy day" would be more like it:shrug: Speaking of not having the same ring consider "Mardi Gras" vs "Fat Tuesday" The two terms refer to the same day but definitely don't have the same ring!:rolleyes:

[/quote]

Yeah I hate the name for the Vatican Archives. The right translation is "Private Archives," but instead they use the tern "Secret Archives."

It's just feeding conspiracy theorists, even though scholars from universities can get library cards and access to them.

Like I said, it happens far too much in the Church that the English translation is pretty shabby. Simple difference between denotation and connotation.


#26

[quote="garn9173, post:23, topic:314955"]
Last Good Friday was the first since I returned to the Church and imagine my surprise when I learned that Good Friday was not a Holy Day of Obligation. Growing up, there was no questions asked that us goods would go to the Good Friday service.

[/quote]

Just yesterday I also learned that Ash Wednesday was not a Holy Day of Obligation. Never knew that before.:shrug: I had to not attend due to recently having foot surgery.


#27

[quote="vames, post:24, topic:314955"]
In French they have "fête d’obligation ou de précepte: commémoration imposée par l’Église". Similarly, in Spanish they have "fiesta de precepto" or "fiesta de obligación". Both terms are used and this corresponds to the Latin original, as defined by the Catechism:

Diei Dominicae obligatio

2180 Praeceptum Ecclesiae Legem Domini determinat et concrete definit. « Die Dominica aliisque diebus festis de praecepto fideles obligatione tenentur Missam participandi ». 124 « Praecepto de Missa participanda satisfacit qui Missae assistit ubicumque celebratur ritu catholico vel ipso die festo vel vespere diei praecedentis ». 125

2181 Eucharistia dominicalis totum christianum fundat et confirmat exercitium. Hac de causa, fideles obligantur ut Eucharistiam participent diebus de praecepto, nisi seria excusentur ratione (exempli gratia, aegritudine, infantium cura) vel a suo proprio dispensentur pastore. 126 Qui deliberate hanc *obligationem *transgrediuntur, grave committunt peccatum.

obligo > ob+ligo = to bind up, bandage, swathe
praeceptum = teaching; precept; order, command

[/quote]

Understood every word:rolleyes:


#28

[quote="vames, post:24, topic:314955"]
In French they have "fête d’obligation ou de précepte: commémoration imposée par l’Église". Similarly, in Spanish they have "fiesta de precepto" or "fiesta de obligación". Both terms are used and this corresponds to the Latin original, as defined by the Catechism:

Diei Dominicae obligatio

2180 Praeceptum Ecclesiae Legem Domini determinat et concrete definit. « Die Dominica aliisque diebus festis de praecepto fideles obligatione tenentur Missam participandi ». 124 « Praecepto de Missa participanda satisfacit qui Missae assistit ubicumque celebratur ritu catholico vel ipso die festo vel vespere diei praecedentis ». 125

2181 Eucharistia dominicalis totum christianum fundat et confirmat exercitium. Hac de causa, fideles obligantur ut Eucharistiam participent diebus de praecepto, nisi seria excusentur ratione (exempli gratia, aegritudine, infantium cura) vel a suo proprio dispensentur pastore. 126 Qui deliberate hanc *obligationem *transgrediuntur, grave committunt peccatum.

obligo > ob+ligo = to bind up, bandage, swathe
praeceptum = teaching; precept; order, command

[/quote]

Thanks for sharing that. Does it have the same nuanced meaning in French and Spanish as it does in English?

The word derivative of "molest" in Spanish means "bother" or "problem," yet in English it usually means something sexual or physical. The word "demandez" means "request" in French though in English the word comes off as a little offensive.

Oh, a perfect example of bad translating is the word "renounce." The Pope used the Latin word for renounce, which I guess comes off more like "abdicate" or "resign," yet renounce in English isn't a neutral word. It means closer to "reject."

Just trying to underscore that the impression that Holy Days are *obligatory *burdens could be because the translations are bad. They could have called it "Holy Days of Precept" or something like that; it could carry the same essential meaning but just come off differently. All in the framing.


#29

Oops! silly me!!
English version:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7O.HTM
(paragraphs 2180-2181)
Latin version:
vatican.va/archive/catechism_lt/p3s2c1a3_lt.htm#ARTICULUS%203%C2%A0%20TERTIUM%20PRAECEPTUM


#30

[quote="PazzoGrande, post:21, topic:314955"]
Would you agree with me that they might wanna consider giving it a better name?

Obligation is a synonym for burden and that's how people might think of it, which is wrong.

I can't think of a better term but they can surely invent one and not change the essence of the rule.

[/quote]

No. Obligation is just fine and in fact gives the sense of urgency. We all have obligations in our state of life and the obligation to worship God should not be sugarcoated in anyway. Call it an obligation because that's exactly what it is.


#31

[quote="PazzoGrande, post:28, topic:314955"]
Thanks for sharing that. Does it have the same nuanced meaning in French and Spanish as it does in English?

[/quote]

Yes, it's the same meaning, as opposed to the other words (molest, request) which have indeed other translations. Using "precepto" or "précepte" has the advantage of defining clearly the idea of teaching, while in practice a French or Spanish speaking individual uses "obligation" when he wants to be sure that going to Mass is a commandment: "estoy obligado de asistir a la misa?". "Holy Days of Precept" sounds very well and involves the same idea of a teaching.


#32

When I have issues with Mass attendance being an obligation I think about how human beings have an obligation to breathe if they want to live.

In case of necessity we can have a machine breathe for people. And we can supply bottled oxygen when there is no good air available and/or when people have reason to venture somewhere that has insufficient breathable air.

But by default people are expected to breathe the available air to live a physical life. Should we think of the Mass as less important for our spiritual well being?


#33

[quote="SMHW, post:32, topic:314955"]
When I have issues with Mass attendance being an obligation I think about how human beings have an obligation to breathe if they want to live.

In case of necessity we can have a machine breathe for people. And we can supply bottled oxygen when there is no good air available and/or when people have reason to venture somewhere that has insufficient breathable air.

But by default people are expected to breathe the available air to live a physical life. Should we think of the Mass as less important for our spiritual well being?

[/quote]

In much the same way, married people have an obligation to care for their family, feed, clothe and shelter them. They ought to do this out of love, but just in case they have trouble with that, civil law can also enforce this obligation by penalizing the negligent parent with removal of the children or even jail time. This is also an obligation because to intentionally neglect this is sinful. So again, the obligation ensures the family gets what's due them, if not out of the ideal of love for them, then at least out of fear of hell or jail.


#34

The term obligation has the advantage of a universal requirement. So you can show to your employer on All Saints Day that you need time off to attend mass (an there are usually a variety of times) and he cannot deny it without a sufficient cause because of your right, under the constitution, to practice your religion.


#35

[quote="Evan, post:34, topic:314955"]
The term obligation has the advantage of a universal requirement. So you can show to your employer on All Saints Day that you need time off to attend mass (an there are usually a variety of times) and he cannot deny it without a sufficient cause because of your right, under the constitution, to practice your religion.

[/quote]

Does the country really still work that way?


#36

[quote="PazzoGrande, post:21, topic:314955"]
Would you agree with me that they might wanna consider giving it a better name?

Obligation is a synonym for burden and that's how people might think of it, which is wrong.

I can't think of a better term but they can surely invent one and not change the essence of the rule.

[/quote]

Obligation is not a synonym for burden. When I married my husband, I became obliged to remain faithful to my vows. That certainly is not a burden. When I gave birth to my children, I became obliged to care for them--that is not a burden. An obligation is doing what you are supposed to be doing. Some obligations can become burdens, true, but they are not synonymous. We are supposed to worship the Lord on the Lord's Day. The Church is perfectly right to call it an obligation--we are supposed to go to Mass on Sundays and Holy Days. If it is a burden, that speaks more about the person than the Church.


#37

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