Why not accept that Jesus will speak to you audibly?


#1

(John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”


#2

He might, but I’m not going to be making any plans for it.

Remeber, he sent his apostles out to preach and teach. The apostles knew that if people didn’t listen to them, they weren’t listening to Christ. YOU have gotten the poison into your head that you’re a prophet, when the only mandate you’ve gotten is from your own imagination. You haven’t been sent by anyone but yourself.

I suspect the object of your worship is somewhere far below Heaven.


#3

The subject implies that Catholics do not.

I would not be so quick to make that statement.
Although unlikely, I do not believe church teachings counters this in any way.

Z


#4

There is a vast difference between private and public revelation, Giver. The public revelation from God to man was given to us by Christ himself and is closed–there will be no more revelations to man from God. Only those appointed by Christ, the Apostles and their successors, have the authority to speak for Christ in matters of faith and morals.

If we experience what we think is a locution (an inner voice we believe to be that of Jesus or a saint or an angel) that message is subject to the public revelation given to us by Christ in his Church, which he founded on Peter and the Apostles. If what we are hearing in our heads and hearts isn’t in line with the public revelation of Christ, it is to be immediately rejected as false and a deception of either our own imagination or of the Devil himself.


#5

I would accept that it does happen.

Though it is exceptionally rare and certainly not the norm.

At the same time I believe that more people that “think” they hear Christ are actually hearing something else.

The “Proof” of the orgins of what they hear likely come for the consistency of the message with Christ’s teachings and the fruits of the labors of the one hearing the voice.

[quote=Giver](John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”
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#6

[quote=Giver](John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”
[/quote]

has he spoken to you audibly?


#7

Well Giver what is he telling you about the question you refuse to answer. Whenever you get stuck on something you leave the thread and start another one.

Despite repeated requests to Giver to address my point he hasn’t so if everyone will forgive me I will repeat it again and hope that Giver will comment.

Following a longer discussion Giver indicated he would never do anyone any harm under any circumstances because that’s not what Jesus teaches.
I asked him if he would stand idly by and not do anything and let his family be attacked and murdered. This was his reply:

QUOTE
(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

Jesus said (John 14:21) “anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”

(Matthew 10:37-39)”Anyone who prefers father or mother to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who prefers son or daughter to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.”

The will of the Father in Heaven is to love our enemies, and I would do nothing that would displease Him. I trust God, if He didn’t want my family to die, they wouldn’t die, and if they were to die they wood, no matter what I tried to do. What most everyone can’t seem to understand is: (Matthew 6:9) “Our father in heaven, may your name be holy, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven.”
UNQUOTE

My comment and question to him was this:

That’s really sad that you would standly idly by and not lift a finger to stop your family being murdered especially when Jesus said in John 15:13 “No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends”.
The original greek words “for one’s friends” mean for “those whom one loves”. Are saying you don’t love your family enough to be willing to die trying to protect them? Are you saying you will not do what Jesus expects us to do in dying, if necessary, to protect loved ones?

So Giver, are you saying Jesus lied when he told us about laying down our lives for our loved ones or is this a different Jesus from the one you are listening to??


#8

Good points, thistle. Also, if Jesus is talking directly to Giver why does he need the Bible at all? Doesn’t relying on the Bible to “back up” what he thinks Jesus is telling him negate his whole idea that “all we have to do is listen to the voice of Jesus who tells each of us what is right”? :whacky:


#9

[quote=Della]Good points, thistle. Also, if Jesus is talking directly to Giver why does he need the Bible at all? Doesn’t relying on the Bible to “back up” what he thinks Jesus is telling him negate his whole idea that “all we have to do is listen to the voice of Jesus who tells each of us what is right”? :whacky:
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:thumbsup:


#10

This excerpt is from a meditation in a devotional book called “An Hour With Jesus” by Rev. Ralph Lawrence and Most Rev. Carl. K. Moeddel. I use it during my adoration times. I thought the subject was appropriate for this conversation. The meditation is entitled, “How Does He Speak”.

"Yes, I speak. But you try to hear my words only through your human ears. Your heart must be still. I spoke. My words are all printed in a book. Do you read it? I actually walked the face of your earth, and spoke my words to my people. Many rejected them, and their persecution of me resulted in my death-for your salvation.

  • Yes, I spoke through my prophets, my saints. I still do. I speak also through my Pope. Do my people listen to him?*
  • But most importantly, I speak directly to you. I need for you to be silent to hear me; to be acompletely empty vessel. For you see, I speak through your mind, and most importantly, through your heart. In your meditation, in your contemplation, in your silent recognition of my presence. I respond to you. It will be the thoughts you suddenly sense in your mind. It will be the truths you painfully accept in your heart regarding your unworthiness. The ache you feel for serenity, peace, and comfort, that frustration you sense struggling for constant control of your own destiny, your desire to actually hear me, these are all the words of your God speaking to you. If your heart and soul are truly silent, your throughts will be my words to you.*
  • One thing more, I need you to give me your heart unconditionally. You must truly commit to give me your love, just as I give you mine. Then our hearts speak to each other. No words are needed!"*

*Scout :tiphat: *


#11

:amen:

If the voices that one is hearing contradicts the teaching’s of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the voices are not from God.


#12

[quote=Dan-Man916]has he spoken to you audibly?
[/quote]

Yes


#13

If the voices that one is hearing contradicts the teaching’s of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the voices are not from God.
[/quote]

Have you heard His voice? If you haven’t heard His voice, how do you know if your one of His?

The Muslims, Mormons, Jews, Catholics, and all the Protestant churches believe they are the one true Church. Jesus is God, and he and the Holy Spirit will teach you, ask God what is right, trust no one else.

You have many people telling you that an individual can’t know if it is Jesus or not. You know what I think? I think those people don’t want to hear Jesus because they are frightened they my not be living the Word of God.

Paul thought he had the only way to God, until Jesus spoke to him.


#14

Perhaps you should take the matter to your confessor.
Maybe he can help you to discern this a little better.

Sometimes it’s better to take this to someone to talk to face to face.
There are lots of opinions here on this board, some good, some bad.
But with all the noise with so many people giving you their perspective, it will be hard to sort it out.


#15

[quote=Dan-Man916]Perhaps you should take the matter to your confessor.
Maybe he can help you to discern this a little better.

Sometimes it’s better to take this to someone to talk to face to face.
There are lots of opinions here on this board, some good, some bad.
But with all the noise with so many people giving you their perspective, it will be hard to sort it out.
[/quote]

Why is it so hard to believe? Jesus said we would hear him. Just to let you know, I have had long talks face to face with two different Catholic Bishops and another bishop’s personal advisor. Also I have talked on the phone with two other Catholic bishops. They all asked what they could do to help me or told me to go and do what Jesus had for me to do.


#16

[quote=Giver]Have you heard His voice? If you haven’t heard His voice, how do you know if your one of His?

The Muslims, Mormons, Jews, Catholics, and all the Protestant churches believe they are the one true Church. Jesus is God, and he and the Holy Spirit will teach you, ask God what is right, trust no one else.

You have many people telling you that an individual can’t know if it is Jesus or not. You know what I think? I think those people don’t want to hear Jesus because they are frightened they my not be living the Word of God.

Paul thought he had the only way to God, until Jesus spoke to him.
[/quote]

This is what happens when you let all the “isms” creep into your head–subjectivism, relativism, post-modernism, etc. You think we can’t know anything by using reason, so you listen to the “voices” in your head.

#1, you have to understand that it’s not humility that makes you deny reason and truth.

#2, you have to dig deep to find the courage to embrace objective truth OUTSIDE OF YOURSELF.

What you and the modern world have in common, Giver, is that you both think you’re the barometer of truth–that it all comes from inside.

Who knows, maybe you’ve convinced yourself that you actually hear the voice of Christ (telling you heresy). If so, you’ve got bigger problems than anything that’s going to be solved on an anonymous message board.


#17

He can do whatever He wants, He is God.

What are some other ways He can speak to people?


#18

Jesus told Paul that by persecuting the Catholic Church he was persecuting Jesus.

Does the voice that you are hearing tell you to submit yourself to the authority of the church founded by Jesus, the One, Holy, Catholic Church? If not, the voice you hear is not the voice of Jesus, and you should seek deliverance and healing.


#19

[quote=Giver]Why is it so hard to believe?
[/quote]

Who said it was hard to believe?
The message wasn’t for me to believe. It is for you to believe or not believe.
I have had about a dozen people on different forums tell me that they have had Jesus speak to them, angels speak to them, saints speak to them, and some who have given them prophecies of world events to come.

I take them for what they are, and I am actually surprised that there are so many people who have had these visions or voices. I don’t dis-believe their claim. I just take it as is. They do not affect my faith because they are not meant for me. The only way they can affect my faith is to witness a profound change in the person toward piety and holiness. That is a role model that inspires me to greater devotion.

If you hear a heavenly voice, these must be discerned to test them if they are good or not. And if they are good, they are for you, not for me or anyone else and should be acted upon.

I remember that one of the visionaries in Medjugorje reported that satan one time came to her disguised as the Blessed Virgin, and told her to do things contrary to the faith. As I have never had such an appairtion, i have not experieced whether or not one can know by intuition.


#20

[quote=Giver](John 10:16) “And there are other sheep I have that are not of this fold, and these I have to lead as well. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd.” (John 10:27) “The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.”
[/quote]

That is not the meaning of the passage. What Jesus was saying was that there were other sheep (i.e. besides the Jews there would be GENTILES) and they will be followers of the shepherd (Jesus) too. There is only ONE FLOCK because there is no longer Jew or Gentile, Roman or Greek, man or woman, etc. We are all ONE in CHRIST. Following the shepherd’s voice means following his instructions. His instructions are in the Holy Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness.)and through the** traditions** passed down through the church (2 Thessalonians 2:15 “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by **letter **from us.”. Sounds to me like we have already been given all the Shepherd wants His sheep to know.


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