Go ask the question in a protestant forum and see what replies you get. I have not seen one verse that clearly without any doubt says angels pray.
Position is the same, just defining what I meant.
If you want to limit, yourself, God and prayer that’s fine. But prayer is a verb, an action. An action which includes, Adoration, Petition, and Thanksgiving. It can be done kneeling, walking, and upon one’s bed. Actions like the use of incense preformed in the Temple in the days of the Old Law, as well as in the homes of the Children of Israel, so too in the Church and in the homes of the Faithful even today. While use in the home is more common in Eastern and Oriental Orthodox and Catholic homes it is of ancient origins as part of prayer. While you are not accustomed to it, after Protestantism ejected it along with inspired books of the Bible, and other teachings and practices the Apostles received from Jesus is sad, but there are many who do want to follow the 16th Century re-invention of Christianity.
The other problem is you seem to be treating the Scriptures not just out of historical context, but as if it was written in English, and modern English at that. For the word pray has been used and continues to be used as more than a petition to God alone even over the past three hundred years in English. So some reflection on the cultural, religious and historical context is in which it was written is important.
Your first mistake is thinking that we are supposed to be separate from our Jewish brothers and sisters in God’s eyes we are supposed to be one. Go back to 1st century Israel, how many people could read and write? Not many, oral tradition was huge with the ancients, as you can see when Jesus meets the Samaritan woman at the well, whose well is it, Jacob’s who lived 1000s of years before. Not for anything all the so called scripture scholars like Nichodemus and Saint Paul couldn’t recognize Jesus as the Messiah right away, but the simple minds like Peter could.
It’s been fun, but now you are out of ammo and just spewing ad hominem. All the best to you, brother. Keep seeking the truth.
According to you, I should take your word for it?
I should disregard 2,000 years of countless writings for your opinion?
I should deny the power of the Holy Spirit to maintain the teachings of Christ (John 14)?
But you apparently believe Matt 18 has no bearing on our lives, Jesus was stupid for saying it because no one uses it, and no can get resolution to our problems.
If I was Lutheran MS and my wife was Lutheran ELCA, and she wanted to murder our unborn child by abortion, I would go to my church and they would tell her she could not do that, and she would go to her church and they would say it is her right to choose and our child would be killed.
Thanks a lot everyone who fractured the church into anything goes factions, of which you are trying to advocate
Christianity is a Jewish religion. Jesus was “sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” The twelve were all Hebrews, as were the first 8,000 adherents (Acts 2:41, Acts 4:4). A reading of Romans 11 reveals that we gentiles have been grafted into the Jewish vine, but it is all the easier for God to graft the natural branches back in.
Abortion is wrong and any church who says different is wrong.
The people in those churches would disagree. They use scripture alone too.
Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a church that Christ left us to definitively say it is wrong…wait he did do that. He did not leave us a single printed word, instead choosing to leave us a living voice of authority, the church.
Please return to topic and remain there as per the Forum Rules which mandate only single topic threads.
Perhaps this article from my blog will help a little. The Intercession & Communion of Saints
And then there are the following links from CA.
*]Is Prayer Synonymous With Worship?
*]Any Friend of God is a Friend of Mine
*]Praying to the Saints
*]The Intercession of the Saints
*]Is Mary’s and the saints’ intercession unbiblical?
I guess I get it, but all these debates ultimately lead to the issue of authority to interpret Bible verses which is where we were.
Ok now back to strictly Saints.
So we’ve been asked to stick to saints.
Ultimately I hope you question the basis of your authority, because it’s not the Bible, but someone’s interpretation of the Bible.
So back to Saints, do you believe that God is incapable of utilizing Saints in heaven to aid in the prayers of the church?
*Off topic posts have been split into their own thread at SPLIT: What is the church and its authority?
are you saying a saint ceases to be a saint after the death of the body?
who said the bible was sacred scripture to begin with? What is the bulwark and pillar of the truth?
It is the CHURCH. The church which Jesus founded, the church passed on to us via the apostles who passed on Jesus’s teachings via scripture and tradition. First came the Church then came the scriptures. That’s how we know that the book of Morman and
the Koran are not sacred scripture.
the Catholics didn’t add anything to the Bible. The protestants took books out. In fact, the very first edition of the King James Bible had all the same books as the Catholic Bible.
who took that book out of your bible? It was in bibles for over a 1500 years before it was removed.
I am sorry that I joined this discussion seeing that it is now completely void of any grace from any of us. It has turned into a bunch of pride filled people, myself included. I am very sensitive about non-Catholic misunderstandings of Catholic teaching and I should just stay away from these boards because they are becoming a temptation to sin and my actions are displeasing to our Lord.
Cool! Thanks for the info.
I find the similarities between Catholicism and Judaism, especially on this topic, fascinating. There’s a lot more in common than I realized.