Why should we care about gay marriage?


#1

I have an honest question, why should we care about gay marriage? Obviously allowing or disallowing gay marriage is not going to stop of prevent homosexual couples from forming, so why are we so hung up about it? If anything, their desire for the right to marry is a reminder to all that marriage actually is valuable -a value our culture seems to be losing. The Church doesnt recognize a civl marriage without a sacramental one, so why does it make a difference?


#2

Hi Student,

There's a whole lengthy thread about this in the "News" section. I posted something but it was lost and I'm kind of glad because I really don't know what to make of all this. :confused: This morning I concluded that it doesn't affect me as a Catholic chaste single.

Strictly legally, I think as far as the judge's ruling goes; it's unconstitutional because the majority voted for a ban in the state of California. Other states have bans and they have not been overturned. Some states allow gay marriage; so I guess the gays want federal permission ultimately. I think it's a matter of gays wanting to be considered a valid lifestyle and Church teachings conflict with that. I also think Judaism, Buddhism and Islam don't condone homosexuality. I'm guessing the Church objects because of what the catechism and other teachings say about homosexuality. It's similar to abortion rulings. Also, I'm thinking that if gays are allowed to marry it compromises the concept of heterosexual marriages, even if the marriages are civil and not religious.

I'm happy to have a single vocation.
:shrug:


#3

Personally, I just don’t see how one can have a constitutional right to a marriage license. By definition, a license is offical permission to do something that you don’t already have a right to. Where is the right for anyone to civilly marry constitutionally protected? Couldn’t the government, through due process, remove civil marriage entirely?


#4

[quote="SudentofGod89, post:1, topic:207910"]
I have an honest question, why should we care about gay marriage? Obviously allowing or disallowing gay marriage is not going to stop of prevent homosexual couples from forming, so why are we so hung up about it?

[/quote]

Because it sends the message that what my parents have is nothing more than what they have. And that is extremely offensive.


#5

Marriage has been ruled (in a 1978 Supreme Court Case) to be a “fundamental right”, so it is protected by the Constitution. Barring an amendment, Americans will have the right to marry with certain restrictions (polygamy, bestiality, consanguinity, etc.)

Why do you need a license? Because not everyone is free to marry. For example, no matter how nice I think you are, I can’t marry you because I’m already married. So no license will be granted for our marriage if we applied. The Catholic Church does a similar investigation, they just don’t issue a license and are more discrete (why do you think you need to present a baptismal certificate with notations?)

Couldn’t the government, through due process, remove civil marriage entirely?

Yes. The government cause also pass a law making it illegal to be Catholic (it would require a Constitutional amendment and would have less than 1% popular support, but it’s theoretically possible). However, when a government start to do those sorts of things (banning fundamental rights), it’s usually not in power for long.


#6

It could very well affect the Church’s tax exempt status. If it becomes the law of the land, when gay marriages are not included as a Catholic practice, it becomes a civil rights violation.

Veeerrry slipper slope!!


#7

[quote="scipio337, post:6, topic:207910"]
It could very well affect the Church's tax exempt status. If it becomes the law of the land, when gay marriages are not included as a Catholic practice, it becomes a civil rights violation.

Veeerrry slipper slope!!

[/quote]

This was stated in the "news" thread also. However, I had a light bulb go over my head recently on this idea. The government would have to interfere not only with Catholicsm, but also with orthodox Judaism, Buddhism and Islam who also don't have marriage rites for gays. I'm not worried about that because by the very same token it becomes a civil rights violation for the government to interfere with freedom of religious beliefs.:thumbsup: Also, politicians have to be very concerned about their votes. It won't happen.


#8

By “gay marriage” do you mean a happy and carefree marriage between a man and a woman? Probably not.

“Gay” used to mean happy and carefree. People don’t use the word to mean that anymore. Just like the meaning of the word “gay” changed, homosexual legal unions will change the definition of common words like “marriage”, “husband”, “wife”, “mother”, and “father”. There will be ramifications (including legal ramifications) for all of us if the common meaning of words like “marriage” changes.

That’s just one of many reasons I can give you. What we do impacts others. What society legalizes and calls “marriage” impacts all of us.


#9

Why should we care?

Simple, we should care about all humans.. The fact that these humans are living a sinful life style is enough to cause Christians to pray for their soul.

The fact that they request their act to be sanctioned by the government is enough to cause good Christians to rise up and protest..

A bit of history... Marriage was and should be for the protection and nurturing of the family, especially the children.. When the Protestant church opened the doors to the use of contraception, the green light was given to the community that all sexual activity is OK.. Nothing is perverse.. It's the frog in the pot story.. Put a frog in hot water and he will jump out.. Put the frog in cold water and slowly turn up the heat, so the water will boil and the frog will stay in the pot and not even know he is being cooked. >> So now the community sees Premarital sex as OK.. Gay sex as OK. Divorce and remarriage (without annulment) as OK. Abortion is OK. Now the Gay community wants to have marriage between same sex partners blessed by the state.. [FONT=Fixedsys]What's next?? Name a perverse sex act and in time, unless the community wakes up, that will be legal as well.[/FONT]

Only the Church can stop this pervesion.. But sin is fun, so the Church is mocked and laughed at.. Nothing new, been going on since the dawn of time.. >> So, stand up Church and do what the Saints have always done; pray and do all you can to help Christ save souls.


#10

Suppose that instead of saying that two people of the same gender can marry we have people who want to declare that, for the sake of equality, all four sided objects shall now be deemed triangles. All of that nonsense about a triangle having only three sides is simply discrimination from knuckle-dragging, mouth breathing conservatives who have a deep repressed hatred for four sided triangles.

Now, if you cared about geometry you would probably care a great deal about a large number of people declaring something so obviously wrong about triangles. It wouldn't matter that you were able to reject their progressive definition about triangles and hold on to any backwards idea you like. It is the same way with people who care about what gets taught about marriage and sexuality. A marriage between two people of the same gender is every bit as ridiculous an idea as a four sided triangle and leads to all kind of crazy ideas. So basically, it matters because the reality about marriage matters.


#11

[quote="scipio337, post:6, topic:207910"]
It could very well affect the Church's tax exempt status. If it becomes the law of the land, when gay marriages are not included as a Catholic practice, it becomes a civil rights violation.

Veeerrry slipper slope!!

[/quote]

Doubt it, a the Church doesn't have to marry anyone it doesn't want to. There are lots of pre-requisites to get married in the Church. It's a Sacred religious ceremony protected by the 1st amenment. Not a secular (civil) service regulated by a local government.


#12

massresistance.org/docs/info/kbase/horror_stories.html ck the link to see what happens in public schools..
VIDEOS of elementary schools normalizing homosexual lifestyle to young children!

Unbelievable. Elementary schools in Cambridge and NY.

Part I - Gay & Lesbian Pride Day in elementary school.

Part II - Role-playing in the second grade.

Here's where it's all headed, folks!

The "Little Black Book" - Hard-core pornographic homosexual "how-to" booklet given to kids at high school!

Written by Boston-based "AIDS Action Committee" with help from Mass. Dept of Public Health, Boston Public Health Commission. Funded also by major corporations, universities, even charities.

"King and King" - story book of homosexual romance read to second graders.

"Fistgate" tapes - reveals what homosexual activists do with children in schools.

Caution: VERY disturbing. At state-sponsored GLSEN workshops. This made national news in 2000 and three Mass. state employees were fired.

Framing the issue - How the homosexual movement got into the Massachusetts schools

Landmark speech by Kevin Jennings, now with the US Dept. of Education!

Schools using "safe zones" to counsel children who feel different - maybe they should "come out" as gay!

Elementary school teaching cross-dressing and transgenderism in 3rd grade.

Mother forced to remove daughter from school because school wouldn't stop.


#13

[quote="scipio337, post:6, topic:207910"]
It could very well affect the Church's tax exempt status. If it becomes the law of the land, when gay marriages are not included as a Catholic practice, it becomes a civil rights violation.

Veeerrry slipper slope!!

[/quote]

That argument doesn't make sense. The Catholic church already decides who they will marry and who they won't. For example, they won't marry a divorced person unless that person has been annulled. So if the state or the feds were to make gay marriage legal, it wouldn't affect the Catholic church. The church would still be allowed to descriminate as it always has.


#14

By using your argument above, this means that all Catholics should also protest marriages between people who are divorced but not annulled. The Catholic church will not be required to marry gays even if it is legal just like they don’t marry divorced people who aren’t annulled. Same thing.


#15

#16

[quote="KostyaJMJ, post:10, topic:207910"]
Suppose that instead of saying that two people of the same gender can marry we have people who want to declare that, for the sake of equality, all four sided objects shall now be deemed triangles. All of that nonsense about a triangle having only three sides is simply discrimination from knuckle-dragging, mouth breathing conservatives who have a deep repressed hatred for four sided triangles.

Now, if you cared about geometry you would probably care a great deal about a large number of people declaring something so obviously wrong about triangles. It wouldn't matter that you were able to reject their progressive definition about triangles and hold on to any backwards idea you like. It is the same way with people who care about what gets taught about marriage and sexuality. A marriage between two people of the same gender is every bit as ridiculous an idea as a four sided triangle and leads to all kind of crazy ideas. So basically, it matters because the reality about marriage matters.

[/quote]

But if you had a square, recognized it was a square, and your faith structure supported in and validated the existance of your square, what's the big deal with a group wanting to call their triangles squares? It doesn't affect your square.


#17

[quote="Dredgemate, post:16, topic:207910"]
But if you had a square, recognized it was a square, and your faith structure supported in and validated the existance of your square, what's the big deal with a group wanting to call their triangles squares? It doesn't affect your square.

[/quote]

it does

marriage doesn't only affect the two people entering into marriage, it affects society as a whole. unless we live 100 miles from one another and have no social interaction to one another. the family is the nucleus of society. you destroy that, you eventually bring down society. its bad enough that we already have divorce, but you can see how that already affects society.


#18

Here’s what legal gay marriage can do:

If a church leases a hall to the public, the church has to allow that hall to be used for gay ceremonies such as wedding receptions.

If a church operates an adoption agency then the church is required to place child with a gay couple or face discrimination.

If gender is not a requirement for marriage then neither is number or relationship. I should be able to marry my 3 brothers.


#19

[quote="KostyaJMJ, post:10, topic:207910"]
Suppose that instead of saying that two people of the same gender can marry we have people who want to declare that, for the sake of equality, all four sided objects shall now be deemed triangles. All of that nonsense about a triangle having only three sides is simply discrimination from knuckle-dragging, mouth breathing conservatives who have a deep repressed hatred for four sided triangles.

Now, if you cared about geometry you would probably care a great deal about a large number of people declaring something so obviously wrong about triangles. It wouldn't matter that you were able to reject their progressive definition about triangles and hold on to any backwards idea you like. It is the same way with people who care about what gets taught about marriage and sexuality. A marriage between two people of the same gender is every bit as ridiculous an idea as a four sided triangle and leads to all kind of crazy ideas. So basically, it matters because the reality about marriage matters.

[/quote]

That reminds me of a story I once heard.

A Jewish family in the Old Country converted to Catholicism. Since such a conversion involves a lot of cultural changes, the priest decided to pay them a visit to see how they were doing. He stopped by on a Friday evening (sabbath) and saw they were preparing their usual sabbath meal, chicken, which was against the new Catholic rules, no meat on Friday. When the priest confronted them, the father picked up the chicken and poured a cup of water over it and said, "It is now a fish".


#20

I see what everyone is saying but must of these are petty reasons like taxes or renting halls and etc or far fetched possible outcomes about polygamy and polygons. these are important, but dont seem fundamental. maybe im just too young and engrossed in the culture but i feel like because the Church doesnt merely accept civil marraige that we should leave civil marraige to the state and regulate the actual sacrament with the same rules we’ve been using all along.


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