Why should your "average" non-christian go to hell?


#1

Why should the average sinner, who doesn’t ask for forgivenss, be condemned to hell? Why should a non-murderer, non-rapist, spend the rest of eternity in torment (with murderers and rapists) simply because of the effects of original sin. I’m not suggesting that humans aare mostly good, but why should having an ego send you to hell, why should blobbing out in front of the TV send you to hell? why should looking at a women twice send you to hell - how is eternal torture a fitting end for these timperfections.

should your average honest joe end up hell simplu because he couldn’t get up the gumption to ask for forgivness? Maybe he doesn’t deserve heaven…but …hell?


#2

Hi.
It is Catholic teaching that those who do not receive the New Birth by the Holy Spirit cannot enter heaven, but descend into Hell at the end of their lives, there to be punished with DIFFERENT punishments, punishments fitting (in God’s eyes) their sins. A mere sloth, for example, wouldn’t receive the same degree of punishment in hell, as say, Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot.
All human beings who reach the age of reason are given the chance by God to choose eternal blessedness. If they refuse it, they have chosen the only other option available in the Divine milieu.
Love, Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)


#3

What sends people to hell is rejection of God. That rejection can take many forms and are called mortal sins by the Church. But, in order for anyone to be culpable of mortal sin (such as rape, murder, etc.) the person must know it is a mortal (grave) sin, be willing commit it anyway, and with full knowledge that he is doing so. That is how God judges the intentions of the human heart, so let’s leave all such judgments to him. Yes? :slight_smile:


#4

God loves ALL sinners. God hates the sin not the sinner. God is love and loves us all.

When I pray the rosary I ask God to allow ALL souls to go to heaven. Perhaps you should ask will ALL the average Christians make it to heaven? JEsus said not all who call His name will make it.

Christianity is a wonderfull theology, more Christians should practice it.


#5

The real question is, why should your average non-christian (or Christian, for that matter) deserve to go to Heaven?


#6

[quote=Jaypeeto4]Hi.
It is Catholic teaching that those who do not receive the New Birth by the Holy Spirit cannot enter heaven, but descend into Hell at the end of their lives, there to be punished with DIFFERENT punishments, punishments fitting (in God’s eyes) their sins. A mere sloth, for example, wouldn’t receive the same degree of punishment in hell, as say, Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot.
All human beings who reach the age of reason are given the chance by God to choose eternal blessedness. If they refuse it, they have chosen the only other option available in the Divine milieu.
Love, Jaypeeto4 (aka Jaypeeto3)
[/quote]

Can you tell me where I can find the teaching on different punishments. I’ve checked the Catechism but can’t find that. My understanding is that by rejecting God’s love you are condemned to Hell as eternal punishment and not for punishment. In other words eternal separation (in Hell) from God is the punishment.


#7

[quote=thistle]Can you tell me where I can find the teaching on different punishments. I’ve checked the Catechism but can’t find that. My understanding is that by rejecting God’s love you are condemned to Hell as eternal punishment and not for punishment. In other words eternal separation (in Hell) from God is the punishment.
[/quote]

newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm
Read the sections: V, VI… and after

First talks about the punishment due no beatific vision. Second and after talks about physical torments of hell. Contrary to what many think the church teaches lately… Hell does have physical punishment.


#8

I quoted this part because I really feel that the first part of your question was answered and also there is a thread in the non catholic forum on sinners. you stated that maybe one doesn’t deserve heaven but hell? Well first of all as Catholics we believe that only God can tell who well go to hell. That is not for us to chose. But keep in mind who amoung deserves heaven? I also just wanted to throw in there that if one only has venal sin on their soul there is a place that you will go after death to clean up - if you will. So that we can be ready to see our Lord and Maker. this place is known a purgatory.

I hope this helps.


#9

yeah purgatory - muslims believe that everyone ends up in heaven eventually - but we all pay for our sins in purgatory, some more than others ofcourse. Christianity on the other hand says that unless you have a personal relationship with Christ (or are ignorant of his existence, but then it gets a bit vague), you will go to hell. Hell is eternal.

That means that a murderer or a pedophile who repents and means it goes to heaven, but your average hard working guy, who takes care of his family, ends up in hell - eternal torture - simply because he is too foolish, or full of pride, to ask for forgiveness. This, apparently gives glory to God. Why is rejecting forgivness the worst sin possible. We are all vain, egotistical creaturesl. So what? if you’ve hurt nobody else, why does that deserve hell?


#10

The phrase “go to heaven” often reminds me
of:
Will we “get into” location A [the good place!]
or…location B [the baddd place.]


Isn’t the phrase: “…see God in the Face” found
someplace in St. Paul’s letters?

usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians13.htm


When I think of hell, I think of the line, spoken by
Satan, in Milton’s Paradise Lost:
“Better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven.”

For it’s all about will. Who’s will will be ‘done on earth.’?
My will, or God’s will.

Do I choose to “reign” [self-will] in hell, or serve God [His will]
in heaven.

And, I wonder:

At that last fleeting nano-second of life, does God
reach out to the soul and say:
"Will you accept My will?"
And will that soul have one last chance to say:
My will be done” and thus choose hell?

For doesn’t Christ tell us to pray:
“Thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven.”

Hmmmmm. :nerd:

reen12*


#11

When prayed… God, I know your will is done, I know it exists… on Earth… just like in Heaven.


#12

[quote=cynic]yeah purgatory - muslims believe that everyone ends up in heaven eventually - but we all pay for our sins in purgatory, some more than others ofcourse. Christianity on the other hand says that unless you have a personal relationship with Christ (or are ignorant of his existence, but then it gets a bit vague), you will go to hell. Hell is eternal.

That means that a murderer or a pedophile who repents and means it goes to heaven, but your average hard working guy, who takes care of his family, ends up in hell - eternal torture - simply because he is too foolish, or full of pride, to ask for forgiveness. This, apparently gives glory to God. Why is rejecting forgivness the worst sin possible. We are all vain, egotistical creaturesl. So what? if you’ve hurt nobody else, why does that deserve hell?
[/quote]

I’ll try to answer this as best I can.

God is love. He loves all of His creatures, He is just, righteous, merciful, caring, loving, etc. He is everything that a perfect Father is.

God like any loving Father lets us all off on our own. He lets us make our own decisions and walk in our own way. And our lives are indicative of our eternity. So as we walk we live a life where we openly reject God. We look to ourselves for sustenance and become self-sufficient. We choose to live our whole lives living our way of life.

Because of God’s loving and justful nature, He cannot allow anything but those people to be eternally seperated from Him because they never wanted to be with Him to begin with. We choose to either say YES to Him or NO to Him. That decision isn’t just while we live here but its for eternity as well.


#13

When one turns their back on a friend that relationship is naturally strained and even non-existent. One really does not want to spend much time with them, do they.

It is the same with God. When one turns their back on Him why do they expect they will have a lasting relationship with Him.

Essentially you send yourself to hell by not searching for Him.


#14

cynic]yeah purgatory - muslims believe that everyone ends up in heaven eventually - but we all pay for our sins in purgatory, some more than others ofcourse. Christianity on the other hand says that unless you have a personal relationship with Christ (or are ignorant of his existence, but then it gets a bit vague), you will go to hell. Hell is eternal.

Please check the Catholic Christian Catechism regarding Purgatory and Hell…you are confusing the Fullness of the Faith with Protestant teachings. I understand your confusion, it can be very weird for those who do not understand that Catholics are taught the fullness of Christianity whereas there are about 20 to 30 thousand different Protestant denominations all based on individual interpretations of Holy Scripture…

That means that a murderer or a pedophile who repents and means it goes to heaven, but your average hard working guy, who takes care of his family, ends up in hell - eternal torture - simply because he is too foolish, or full of pride, to ask for forgiveness. This, apparently gives glory to God. Why is rejecting forgivness the worst sin possible. We are all vain, egotistical creaturesl. So what? if you’ve hurt nobody else, why does that deserve hell?

This assumes a great deal. Catholics do not pretend to know exactly who will go to heaven or to hell. We have the fullness of the faith, but we know that God is all merciful and loving and so we leave final judgement up to God. I also think that there is a fallacy today in thinking that when we sin, no matter what that sin is, that we are hurting only ourselves. That in itself is vain and egotistical, as you so rightly pointed out. No man is an island. Everyone of us matters. What I do, as an individual, even to myself, matters and affects others. To pretend that I do not matter demeans me as a human creature, and I believe I am worth more than that - what I do matters, what I say matters, how I behave matters…I can have a positive or negative affect on the world with every action or inaction I take. God did not create me in a vacum, so I disagree with your basic premise.


#15

Who says he does? We are not to know - only God. You do not know what happens in peoples hearts as they face death. And we certainly have a merciful God.


#16

Suggested reading :

The Diary of Saint Faustina - Divine Mercy

Jesus’ words in red

Jesus is commanding me to make a novena before the Feast of Mercy, and today I am to begin it for the conversion of the world and for the recognition of the Divine Mercy… “so that every soul will praise My goodness. I desire trust from My creatures. Encourage souls to place great trust in My fathomless mercy. Let the weak, sinful soul have no fear to approach Me, for even if it had more sins than there are grains of sand in the world, all would be drowned in the unmeasurable depths of My mercy.”

When I went for adoration, I heard these words: "My beloved daughter, write down these words, that today My Heart has rested in this convent (the Cracow house) Tell the world about My mercy and My love.

"The flames of mercy are burning Me. I desire to pour them out upon human souls. Oh, what pain they cause Me when they do not want to accept them!

"My daughter, do what ever is within your power to spread devotion to My mercy. I will make up for what you lack. Tell aching mankind to snuggle close to My merciful Heart, and I will fill it with peace.

"Tell (all people) My daughter, that I am Love and Mercy itself. When a soul approaches Me with trust, I fill it with such an abundance of graces that it cannot contain them within itself, but radiates them to other souls.

** “Today bring to Me the pagans and those who do not know Me. I was thinking also of them during My bitter Passion, and their future zeal comforted My Heart. Immerse them in the ocean of My mercy”. **


#17

[quote=cynic]Why should the average sinner, who doesn’t ask for forgivenss, be condemned to hell? Why should a non-murderer, non-rapist, spend the rest of eternity in torment (with murderers and rapists) simply because of the effects of original sin. I’m not suggesting that humans aare mostly good, but why should having an ego send you to hell, why should blobbing out in front of the TV send you to hell? why should looking at a women twice send you to hell - how is eternal torture a fitting end for these timperfections.

should your average honest joe end up hell simplu because he couldn’t get up the gumption to ask for forgivness? Maybe he doesn’t deserve heaven…but …hell?
[/quote]

If one compares the perfect Goodness of God against the goodness of the holiest sinful person (Jesus and Mary excepted), none of us (even the most repentant) deserve to be in Heaven and eternally in the Presence of God. It is for the Mercy of God that gives us confident hope that we might reside for eternity with God. It is presumptious for any us to “presume” that we deserve Heaven.


#18

[quote=cynic]Why should the average sinner, who doesn’t ask for forgivenss, be condemned to hell? Why should a non-murderer, non-rapist, spend the rest of eternity in torment (with murderers and rapists) simply because of the effects of original sin. I’m not suggesting that humans aare mostly good, but why should having an ego send you to hell
[/quote]

Because the ego unreconciled to God is what makes hell hell.

Have you ever read Sartre’s play *No Exit?

*I also recommend C. S. Lewis’s *The Great Divorce *and Jerry Walls’s Hell: the Logic of Damnation.
Edwin


#19

[quote=cynic]Why should the average sinner, who doesn’t ask for forgivenss, be condemned to hell?
[/quote]

“Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep instead for yourselves and for your children, for if these things are done when the wood is green what will happen when it is dry?" Luke 23, 28 and 31


#20

There is a great book on the subject written by the head of Priests for Life-
The Travel Guide to Heaven.
You can find it at any bookstore- Borders, Barnes & Noble, etc.


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