Why such a decline in morality?

Why is it that there has been such a decline in morality since after the Second Vatican council?

I can’t help but notice that so much bad has occured in society and decline of the Church since the 60s.

Why after the council?

Coincidence, or…
Vietnam, Prayer is outlawed in schools, Roe v Wade, drugs, HIV, double digit inflation, gay agenda, scandal of all kinds, yada yada yada. Could there be similarities with us and how ancient Israel would turn from God and then run smack dab into chaos?

However, I think that the lack of formation in the Catholic schools has also contributed to a lack of morality at least in the Catholic community.

I don’t believe there has been a decline. An increase in publicity, perhaps.

In my opinion, the devil chose Vatican II as a time to launch an internal attack on the church to obscure objective morality on issues like contraception, social justice and modernism. The devil also launched an external attack using society, the media, and the widespread growth of political correctness and feminization to further attempt to silence the catholic church. Now after a few generations of having this sort of climate in and out of the church, even many church-attending catholics know very little about their faith.

I think people are losing their sense of sexual morality simply because it isn’t being taught to them by the church, by society, or in the home anymore. There will always be that little voice in their conscience telling them people that their lifestyle’s are wrong, but that voice is being over-powered by a rotten and dysfunctional media and a church that seems to be too afraid (in many cases) to preach about the evils of sin and the reality of damnation.

Hippies! Thats why! ( I should know…)

There have been no world wars in that time.

I realize this is U.S. centric, but there’s much less discrimination now (and no lynchings!)


The decay actually started earlier. Look how many 1950s movies were about wild teenagers. Blackboard Jungle and Rebel Without A Cause right off the top of my head.

Why is it that when people say the word “morality” they tend to be talking about adherence to tradition, pre-marital sex, etc. but no one talks about violence?


Seems to me, violence is a pretty darn evil thing! And it’s on the decline, as it has been for many many years now.


Steven Pinker charts the decline of violence from Biblical times to the present, and argues that, though it may seem illogical and even obscene, given Iraq and Darfur, we are living in the most peaceful time in our species’ existence.

The big problem with Pinker’s claims is that he leaves out 53 million murders in the US alone in the last 40 years. Just taking one particular city as an example, if you consider the fact that 41% of New Yorkers are murdered before they’re even born, the violent death rate is right back up near the top of the most violent hunter-gatherer societies. Seems to me as though violence has gone through the roof in the last 40 years, and is tied directly to the decline in traditional morals.

The Second Vatican Council had nothing to with it. I was there before and after Vatican 2. I did not love God less after but a small group of radicals set out to (A) separate sex from love and turn it into ‘just sex,’ like going to the bathroom, (B) use the media to make public what should be private and to promote unmarried cohabitation with sex, same-sex marriage and turning a family into any combination of relationships other than a biological mother and father and their biological children. A quick review:

1960 The FDA approves The Birth Control Pill.

1967 A Time magazine cover story encourages women to use The Pill. Read why here:

1968 Pope Paul VI has Humanae Vitae published. He knew what would happen if his words were not heeded, including increased promiscuity. There is a great outcry against it from inside and outside the Church.


The Sexual Revolution occurs. Sexual pleasure is marketed as being more important than love, leading to the “test drives” before getting married later on.

1970s So-called Adult Bookstores open across America selling porn and magazines filled with ads from people looking for uncommitted sex. Strip clubs (called gentlemen’s clubs to lend respectability) open along with Topless Bars.

1973 Abortion legalized under false pretenses.


Meanwhile, the National Organization for Women is telling all women that they are victims and all men are the enemy. A type of Marxist class warfare is established. Women are told having kids and staying home is bad. Getting out of the house and not having kids is good. Get a career, they say.

1980s No-Fault Divorce completes its sweep of the country. I open the paper to the classifieds and see a lot of ads that read like this: “No kids? $75 and you’re out. Call 800-DIVORCE.” No reverence for marriage exhibited.

Porn on cable. And by the way, Christians did protest but we were called names and high-priced lawyers were ready to defend the First Amendment rights of the producers of porn.

1990s Into the abyss. Families have been torn apart. Aunts, uncles, in-laws gone. Shock jocks spewing profanity on the radio. Rap disrespecting women and promoting violence. Church parking lots empty and mall parking lots fill up. Selfishness, indifference and “Hey. What’s the big deal?” is the reply to scandal. Then the internet.

2000s Just about any lifestyle that does not follow Christian moral principles is displayed on TV and in the movies. Yes, it all happened gradually. First, in the late 1960s, it was: “Leave us alone. We’re adults. We’ll do what we want.” And some of us said, “OK. Fine.” To: “You’re a bigot and infringing on our rights.” To: “We want and in some cases, demand, you’re acceptance and approval.”

Learn what the Church teaches and why. Understand today’s issues from a Catholic perspective. And realize that the majority of the current problems in the West revolve around a very disordered view of what human sexuality is and what marriage is. There is such a thing as right and wrong, and modesty and decency are still in the dictionary.


I think V2 had little to do with it; the timing is too close. The big social upheavals of the 60s started during and intensified immediately after the Council; and the secular world doesn’t follow Church councils that closely. V2 hadn’t even had time to make itself really felt in the Church, much less leak out from there to the secular world.

V2 had the bad luck to occur almost precisely concurrently with a huge social upheaval with many causes and facets (the ‘Sexual Revolution’ fueled by birth control running smack into, and influencing, a new wave of feminism running into, as time wore on, Vietnam-fueled general disquiet with who we were as a civilization merging with, etc. etc…) whose effects are still being felt very strongly. A lot of crazy stuff was presented as because of V2 (or “the spirit of Vatican 2”), but IMO that is actually the new trends in the secular world influencing interpretation of the Council (‘interpretation’ with little reference to what it actually said, in the worse cases) rather than the Council influencing the other stuff.


secular upheaval – > misapplication of V2 documents/“Spirit of V2” --> disruptions in Church life


Vatican II -> application of V2 documents -> disruptions in Church life -> secular world upheaval

We are still living in the time of upheaval IMO, though not the first “heated” phase of it; things have not ‘stabilized’ yet, and it’ll probably be a while till they do (possibly in the next 2 decades or so as the adult population becomes dominated by people for whom the 60s/70s are just history & thus have much less personal stake in those social changes)

(and yeah, past eras had their own evils too, very definitely. There is no morally pure civilization short of the eschatological Kingdom of God.)

Har Har Har :stuck_out_tongue:

lots of people had it a lot worse before the 60s. your view is not everyones.

Why, what decline? All moralities are equal, didn’t you know? You have your morality, I have mine, and we all must respect each other’s choice of moral system, or choice to not recognize any moral system.

It’s a truly enlightened way to think. Totally post-Christian. Totally. No hang-ups, no judging other people’s choices, ever.

We must be the smartest, most advanced-est and greatest-est civilization ever.

I don’t think this conversation can even be had between believers and non-believers, if only because many examples of immorality in the eyes of the believer don’t even merit a blip on the unbelievers moral radar (homosexuality, birth control, being just two examples).

as it happens, most would agree that people are smarter and more advanced than ever before. advances in medicine, technology, etc. but i guess it depends on what youre talking about. maybe you mean smart as in knowing a lot about the bible…

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