Why the death penalty is essential


#1

In Frederick, the MS-13 killed a person after getting a call from El Salvador. In Maryland, we don’t have the death penalty as it was removed in 2013. Since these two-dozen gang members are being tried federally, the death penalty (is thankfully) available. While the dignity of the human person is to be paramount, the issue is whether a society should be able to remove someone’s free-will to commit murder even if it means imposing solitary confinement and/or capital punishment.

I’m not saying that we should seek vengeance via the death penalty but because our culture is opposed to life imprisonment in solitary confinement (or by any other means that prevents outside communication when necessary) that the death penalty is the only acceptable punishment. That said, it’s extremely unfortunate that the death penalty is abused and used way too often when life imprisonment is sufficient.

Thus, it is a misnomer, for there to be the absence of a death penalty in the developing world and / or the developed world. If the affiliates can call up someone in El Salvador, those same affiliates can call up someone in prison to carry out the crimes. I also think the US Marshals should go into El Salvador and kidnap anyone involved in this murder. They should be charged as enemy-combatants and since they were neither US Citizens nor were they on US soil, they shouldn’t be entitled to civilian trial.


#2

I struggle to accept Francis’ recent change to the Catechism that the death penalty is never acceptable. For centuries, headsmen in the Papal States were never short of work. There are people who need to be stopped, and who can only be stopped with deadly force.

“Anyone who clings to the historically untrue – and – thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never solves anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms.” -Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers


#3

Wasn’t there meant to be a moratorium on this? Either way, I don’t see the point of these posts. I dislike the changes as well, but it’s way too long after the event to constantly discuss, does nothing to foster harmony on these troubled forums, and frankly opens yet another completely unnecessary can of worms. Please stop.


#4

There is a CAF moratorium on the discussion of this topic. The moderators suggest you reference this excellent article by Jimmy Akin:

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/understanding-the-catechism-revision-on-the-death-penalty


#5

No problem. My error. I will cease and desist as requested. But how are we to discuss our faith in this issue and correct prudential judgment if we aren’t to discuss it?

Length of time is an improper reason if the moral reasoning for the teaching is improper. It’s not an infalliable teaching. Just because a pope believes that the death penalty is wrong because of the dignity of the human person doesn’t mean that it is correct as another pope might believe that while the dignity of the human person is to be respected that there are times where it is necessary (such as when a society wants to prevent an individual from committing to commit murder while in prison).


#6

I am also against this rather unfortunate teaching, and the confusion and discord it has sown. I am also against the Holy Father’s handling of some of the areas of his office. I am also not against the continued discussion of its implications, particularly among clergy and lay experts, but the havoc it has wrought on these forums leads me to agree with the moratorium the mods have instated. God Bless!


#7

I agree. While the Holy Father should be respected (he is our Pope), it doesn’t mean that we need to be 100% in agreement with his teachings or world-view and each Pope really should have their own world-view and respect for differences of opinion. A faith pronouncement should always be free of error and should not be based on the opinion of a Pope, Cardinal, or Bishop but on what is right and wrong.

I agree. While the Holy Father should be respected (he is our Pope), it doesn’t mean that we need to be 100% in agreement with his teachings or world-view and each Pope really should have their own world-view and respect for differences of opinion. A faith pronouncement should always be free of error and should not be based on the opinion of a Pope, Cardinal, or Bishop but on what is right and wrong.

Also[quote=“INP, post:6, topic:503548”]
I am also not against the continued discussion of its implications, particularly among clergy and lay experts, but the havoc it has wrought on these forums leads me to agree with the moratorium the mods have instated. God Bless!
[/quote]

I think it’s sad that there cannot be a disagreement of opinion and or a reflection of when a belief in supporting the death penalty is sinful vs a non-sinful point of view. I believe if it’s done with wrath that it is sinful and there is useful discussion to that whereas if it’s done with love and hope for someone to be saved and to stop committing murder from life behind bars that it doesn’t have the same implication.

One’s support for the death penalty should be open for discussion as to how to live their faith life or if they can serve on a jury even with the possibility of considering to impose that punishment.


#9

Thanks, I will. I don’t support the death penalty. I do support clarity of teaching.


#10

Oh absolutely, very true. It’s also imperative to remember that just because something is in the Catechism doesn’t make it authoritative or true.


#11

I still support all of you and love you


#12

Please. The mods have asked that there be a moratorium on this subject.

Please refer to Jimmy Akins article.

@camoderator


#13

That’s good for you. I just don’t see how insulting us is a manifestation of that love.


#14

You’re entitled to that opinion, but I think it’s misguided since people can be for the death penalty but still love the individual who committed the crime (most likely murder). I should also be able to believe it is gullible to believe that those who oppose the death penalty are also one of those gullible anti-war folks (i.e. war is not the answer). I support your view to strongly oppose the death penalty but ask for the same.


#15

You have interpreted my opinion as an insult. It wasn’t meant to be. I strongly oppose the death penalty


#16

I love all you too.


#17

Then don’t call people disgusting. And distinguish between categories.

Supporting the Church’s age-old stance of executing criminals only when they cannot be dangerous to society as a whole does not make one a bad, cruel or vindictive human being, as you seem to suggest. I would further suggest you apologise for your comment. It was completely out of line.


#18

One of my favorite books. :+1:t3: We need the death penalty, in extremely rare instances for those who cannot be stopped. What do you do to a person charged with murder, sent to life in prison who kills several people while in prison? Say “Stop, or I’ll say stop again”? The death penalty should never by about revenge, but about stopping those who cannot be contained.


#19

Very true. I think that’s the bigger issue with this topic (how to live Catholic life better) not whether you support or oppose it.

+1 Thanks. I agree.


#20

Well a manifestation of that love is that I care about you and will pray for you whilst not sharing that opinion . How may I pray you today? Xx


#21

Sorry to clarify, the opinion disgusts me. You are me brother / sister and you don’t


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