Why is it that Catholics end at “but deliver us from evil” while others go with “for thine is the Kingdom etc.”
Thoughts from long ago:
in anglican service i have attended,i never have the urge to remind Him of His kingdom nor tell Him the power and the glory is His He knows that already
It’s not just Catholics, mate (if I may call u that), I just checked the Revised Standard Version of the Holy Bible – by Bible Society – and they also include that prayer and a foot-note about the " … Thy kingdom come …" part.
Why do u want to know anyway? Don’t you like it? I noticed the difference you write about when I was much younger, too.
I am not sure why the ending was added by various Protestant churches. I do, however, know the origin of the original prayer. It was in the readings for this past week. Matthew 6:7-15. When I converted, it took me awhile to remember to drop the ending, LOL!
“For thine is the kingdom…” is part of the Catholic liturgy of the Eucharist, not part of Scripture.
edit: the verse truly is Matt. 6:7-15 . I’m glad I was beaten to it.
According to scripture. That is the end of the Lords Prayer. In the liturgy the priest prays and the conclusion is the “for thine” part that all say.
Protestants say it because it was passed down after their schism. Many Protestants don’t realize they words are from the roman missal not the Bible.
When I first became Catholic, I just blundered on with the doxology at the end as part of the “Lord’s Prayer”, out of sheer habit I’d never checked to see if it was in the Bible as part of the “Our Father” as taught by Christ.
Strictly speaking the doxology is not part of the prayer as taught by Christ, but appears to be an addition at some later date.
In this as in other things, the Catholic Church remains closer to the Scriptures than the Protestants.
A couple of references follow -
Same with me!
The doxology is found in the manuscripts of the Byzantine text type which make up about 95% of the extant manuscripts. An example of these was Erasmus’ Greek Testament which was used by the early Protestant translations.
The doxology is not found in the manuscripts of the Alexandrian text type which while only making up about 5% of the manuscripts, are older. These form the basis of the critical text that is used for most modern translations.
So whether the doxology is in the Bible depends on what text type was used.
The doxology is not in Luke in either of the text types.
I find it odd we say “trespasses” in English instead of “debts” or “sins.” I have tried to figure out where trespasses comes from, and the farthest I could trace it back was the English book of Common Prayer.
I still don’t think it is “from the roman missal.” It seems more ancient than the roman missal, but not in the actual Bible.
The way I heard it explained, it was a common way to close just about any prayer way back in ancient times, but it just sort of stuck with the Lord’s Prayer.
One could say that “for thine is the Kingdom etc.” is not an ending but is a doxology added on to the ending.
a hymn or form of words containing an ascription of praise to God.
I don’t think it is accurate to say that Protestants got it from the Roman missal. “For thine is the kingdom…” was not present in the Roman missal at the time of the Reformation and was only first added to its place after the Libera Nos (which itself was radically altered) when new missal came out following the Second Vatican Coucil. Furthermore, the “quia tuum est regnum…” is, as far as I know, foreign to the Latin Bible tradition. I think its current use in the Roman liturgy is an import from the East or from Protestantism. As others have said, it is said by the Protestants because it was in the Greek New Testament texts that were in common use at the time.
Eastern Catholics and Orthodox do say the “For thine is the kingdom”… it’s simply a matter of… :eek: TRADITION.
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men!!!