Why the divinity of Jesus is being taken literally when a lot of what in the Bible is not?


#1

Jesus taught that we are all children of God and we must be perfect just as our Heavenly father is, this isn't being taken literally.

What makes Jesus so unique to be worshiped as a god and not to be considered as only a wise and enlightened human being of his time?


#2

Uhmm.... The fact that he was crucified and resucitated Himself as the prophecies of old and as He Himself asserted?

John 2:18 Then the Jews responded and said to him, “What sign can you show to us, that you may do these things?” 2:19 Jesus responded and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

He, "Jesus" was referring to the temple of His human body. Of course they misunderstood Him, they thought He was referring to the Temple in Jerusalem.
Which is harder to raise up?
A structure made of stone or a Human body murdered in the way Jesus was?

--


#3

[quote="JerryZ, post:2, topic:339897"]
Uhmm.... The fact that he was crucified and resucitated Himself as the prophecies of old and as He Himself asserted?

John 2:18 Then the Jews responded and said to him, “What sign can you show to us, that you may do these things?” 2:19 Jesus responded and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

He, "Jesus" was referring to the temple of His human body. Of course they misunderstood Him, they thought He was referring to the Temple in Jerusalem.
Which is harder to raise up?
A structure made of stone or a Human body murdered in the way Jesus was?

--

[/quote]

How does this indicate that he was literally a son of God, a god?


#4

Well the pharisess asked Him if He is truly the Son of the Blessed One. If they thought that He meant that He is son of God like we all are then they wouldn't asked Him wouldn't they. And they most certainly wouldn't pronounce Him a blashphemer for saying something that is a known fact. So if Jesus is the Son of God in a singular form then He is something special. And the Son of God is also God.


#5

[quote="LibralAteoJesus, post:1, topic:339897"]
Jesus taught that we are all children of God and we must be perfect just as our Heavenly father is, this isn't being taken literally.

What makes Jesus so unique to be worshiped as a god and not to be considered as only a wise and enlightened human being of his time?

[/quote]

That is exactly what some Jews believe about Jesus: that He was a "wise and enlightened human being," a brilliant rabbi, albeit an unorthodox one, but not a god. Some Jews believe His apostles misinterpreted what Jesus was saying about Himself. Of course, this does not explain Jesus' resurrection or His prophecies (the miracles He performed are not regarded according to Judaism as a test of the Messiah); but whether the Gospels got that right, considering they were written a fair number of years after the fact and that there are more than a few differences in their account of Jesus, is open to discussion.


#6

[quote="LibralAteoJesus, post:1, topic:339897"]
Jesus taught that we are all children of God and we must be perfect just as our Heavenly father is, this isn't being taken literally.

[/quote]

What makes you think that this is not being taken literally?

What makes Jesus so unique to be worshiped as a god and not to be considered as only a wise and enlightened human being of his time?

There are many things.

The Virgin birth being a biggie...
30 And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.
32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end." 34 And Mary said to the angel, "How shall this be, since I have no husband?" 35 And the angel said to her,
"The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.
(Luke Chapter 1)
So the fact that Jesus was not conceived in the usual human manner - but by the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit...Of God...Makes him rather unique - wouldn't you agree?

Peace
James


#7

[quote="LibralAteoJesus, post:1, topic:339897"]
Jesus taught that we are all children of God and we must be perfect just as our Heavenly father is, this isn't being taken literally.

What makes Jesus so unique to be worshiped as a god and not to be considered as only a wise and enlightened human being of his time?

[/quote]

To answer your first question, saints who displayed heroic virtue were sanctified to their fullest capacity. Also, we have Doctors of the Church who carefully explain and advise about all the pitfalls on the road to sanctity. (union with God,..perfection.)

Jesus is unique because He rose from the dead. He is the Son of God, the 2nd Person of the Blessed Trinity. There were wise and enlightened men before his time and after, but they did not rise from the dead.


#8

[quote="JRKH, post:6, topic:339897"]

[quote=LibralAteoJesus

Jesus taught that we are all children of God and we must be perfect just as our Heavenly father is, this isn't being taken literally.

What makes you think that this is not being taken literally?

[/quote]

Exactly!

The word 'perfect' here is τέλειοι, from the root word τέλος, which means perfection in the sense of a 'goal' or an 'end-result.' Therefore, we take Jesus literally here: just as God perfectly what He is intended to be, we too should strive to become what we are intended to be -- God's children, full of love for Him and for each other. It's a tall order, but we take it literally! ;)

So, I think your premise is flawed, and doesn't support your assertion in the way that you want it to...


#9

Divinity of Jesus Christ Proved from Scripture

The Bible is clear: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1). We know Jesus is the Word because John 1:14 tells us, “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” God the Father was not made flesh; it was Jesus. Jesus is the Word, the Word is God, therefore Jesus is God.

In Deuteronomy 10:17 and 1 Timothy 6:15, God the Father is called the “Lord of lords,” yet in other New Testament passages this divine title is applied directly to Jesus. In Revelation 17:14 we read, “They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings.” And in Revelation 19:13–16, John sees Jesus “clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. . . . On his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords.”

The fact that Jesus is God is indicated in numerous places in the New Testament. John 5:18 states that Jewish leaders sought to kill Jesus “because he not only broke the Sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God.” Paul also states that Jesus was equal with God (Phil. 2:6). But if Jesus is equal with the Father, and the Father is a God, then Jesus is a God. Since there is only one God, Jesus and the Father must both be one God—one God in at least two persons (the Holy Spirit, of course, is the third person of the Trinity).

The same is shown in John 8:56–59, where Jesus directly claims to be Yahweh (“I AM”). “‘Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad.’ The Jews then said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and you have seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.’ So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.” Jesus’ audience understood exactly what he was claiming; that is why they picked up rocks to stone him. They considered him to be blaspheming God by claiming to be Yahweh.

The same truth is emphasized elsewhere. Paul stated that we are to live “awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13). And Peter addressed his second epistle to “those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Pet. 1:1).

Jesus is shown to be God most dramatically when Thomas, finally convinced that Jesus has risen, falls down and exclaims, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28) Thomas was not rebuked, and Jesus did not reject Thomas’ worship.


#10

[quote="LibralAteoJesus, post:1, topic:339897"]
Jesus taught that we are all children of God and we must be perfect just as our Heavenly father is, this isn't being taken literally.

What makes Jesus so unique to be worshiped as a god and not to be considered as only a wise and enlightened human being of his time?

[/quote]

If you believe what the New Testament says about him I don't know how you could come to any other conclusion but that he is God Incarnate.


#11

[quote="meltzerboy, post:5, topic:339897"]
That is exactly what some Jews believe about Jesus: that He was a "wise and enlightened human being," a brilliant rabbi, albeit an unorthodox one, but not a god. Some Jews believe His apostles misinterpreted what Jesus was saying about Himself. Of course, this does not explain Jesus' resurrection or His prophecies (the miracles He performed are not regarded according to Judaism as a test of the Messiah); but whether the Gospels got that right, considering they were written a fair number of years after the fact and that there are more than a few differences in their account of Jesus, is open to discussion.

[/quote]

Is the son of God ever mentioned in Judaism?


#12

[quote="Gorgias, post:8, topic:339897"]

Exactly!

The word 'perfect' here is τέλειοι, from the root word τέλος, which means perfection in the sense of a 'goal' or an 'end-result.' Therefore, we take Jesus literally here: just as God perfectly what He is intended to be, we too should strive to become what we are intended to be -- God's children, full of love for Him and for each other. It's a tall order, but we take it literally! ;)

[/quote]

Yes - and also it is important to recognize the context within which the statement is made (Mt 5: 43-48). Jesus is speaking about Love - Agape - even for our enemies.

So it is indeed a perfection in Agape that we are to strive for.

Peace
James


#13

[quote="JRKH, post:12, topic:339897"]
Yes - and also it is important to recognize the context within which the statement is made (Mt 5: 43-48). Jesus is speaking about Love - Agape - even for our enemies.

So it is indeed a perfection in Agape that we are to strive for.

Peace
James

[/quote]

I understand this but even if we achieve perfection in love and faith as "children of God", we still won't be able to be the all powerful God as Jesus is claimed to be, our perfectness is different from the perfectness of God, therefore it's not being taken literally, because none of us however was perfect, we cannot be all loving, all knowing and all powerful unlike Jesus.

Was the son of God ever mentioned in the old testament?


#14

[quote="LibralAteoJesus, post:11, topic:339897"]
Is the son of God ever mentioned in Judaism?

[/quote]

Not according to Judaism's interpretation of the Hebrew Bible. According to Christianity, there are intimations of the Trinity in the Hebrew Bible. Judaism believes the Messiah is not G-d, whether he is a priestly or military Messiah, or both. Thus, according to Judaism, if Jesus is the Messiah, He cannot be G-d, and if Jesus is G-d, He cannot be the Messiah. One cannot have it both ways.


#15

[quote="LibralAteoJesus, post:1, topic:339897"]
Jesus taught that we are all children of God and we must be perfect just as our Heavenly father is, this isn't being taken literally.

[/quote]

This isn't taken literally because it is impossible. No one can be perfect; we are smart enough to realize this, and Jesus would have been too, so he couldn't have meant it literally.

[quote="LibralAteoJesus, post:1, topic:339897"]
What makes Jesus so unique to be worshiped as a god and not to be considered as only a wise and enlightened human being of his time?

[/quote]

Jesus isn't "a god", he is the God. There is only one God, comprised of 3 persons (Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit). The things that Jesus reportedly did are not possible for a mere man.


#16

[quote="meltzerboy, post:14, topic:339897"]
Not according to Judaism's interpretation of the Hebrew Bible. According to Christianity, there are intimations of the Trinity in the Hebrew Bible. Judaism believes the Messiah is not G-d, whether he is a priestly or military Messiah, or both. Thus, according to Judaism, if Jesus is the Messiah, He cannot be G-d, and if Jesus is G-d, He cannot be the Messiah. One cannot have it both ways.

[/quote]

So the Messiah can only be a human, but not God?

And what about the Christian claim that Jesus is both? Couldn't Jesus as a human be Messiah, priest, prophet, and as God be the perfect sacrifice to atone for sins?


#17

[quote="LibralAteoJesus, post:13, topic:339897"]
I understand this but even if we achieve perfection in love and faith as "children of God", we still won't be able to be the all powerful God as Jesus is claimed to be, our perfectness is different from the perfectness of God, therefore it's not being taken literally, because none of us however was perfect, we cannot be all loving, all knowing and all powerful unlike Jesus.

[/quote]

You'd be surprised.....

Seriously - you are reading more into this that is there...The text does not say that we must be equal to God...but that we must be perfect (in Love) as God is perfect in Love.

As for our capabilities as we grow in holiness...Jesus Himself says,
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. - (John 14:12)

That seems like quite a lot...

Was the son of God ever mentioned in the old testament?

I believe Randy provided some input on this....I am not well versed enough to answer.

Peace
James


#18

[quote="bzkoss236, post:15, topic:339897"]
This isn't taken literally because it is impossible. No one can be perfect; we are smart enough to realize this, and Jesus would have been too, so he couldn't have meant it literally.

[/quote]

If it is not meant literally then how is it meant? Can anything imperfect enter heaven?

Peace
James


#19

[quote="JRKH, post:17, topic:339897"]
You'd be surprised.....

Seriously - you are reading more into this that is there...The text does not say that we must be equal to God...but that we must be perfect (in Love) as God is perfect in Love.

As for our capabilities as we grow in holiness...Jesus Himself says,
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. - (John 14:12)

That seems like quite a lot...

I believe Randy provided some input on this....I am not well versed enough to answer.

Peace
James

[/quote]

This is not what I meant, many verses in the Bible aren't being taken literally, why the divinity of Jesus is? That was my question, then I got few answers about verses from the Bible on how he is the son of God, but these verses are being taken literally, while others aren't.

What are the criterias to take some verses literally but others not?

Can you be a Christian without believing in the divinity of Jesus, are such beliefs defined as heresies?


#20

[quote="bzkoss236, post:16, topic:339897"]
So the Messiah can only be a human, but not God?

And what about the Christian claim that Jesus is both? Couldn't Jesus as a human be Messiah, priest, prophet, and as God be the perfect sacrifice to atone for sins?

[/quote]

Based on Jewish interpretation of the Written Law (Torah) and Oral Law (Talmud), the Messiah is a human being period, not combined with G-d Incarnate. The notion of G-d Incarnate in Judaism is not even conceivable since any entity of flesh is imperfect. However, I understand that the Christian/Catholic belief is that Jesus of the flesh is the human Jesus whereas Jesus of the spirit is G-d. This hypostatic union, however, is also alien to Judaism. Now, Christians have made the argument that G-d has revealed Himself in increments to us limited human beings; however, Judaism does not accept this idea either since it believes that the so-called Old Covenant (the Law) is eternal: that is, it has no beginning and no end, and that the Law revealed to the Jewish people that G-d is one separate, extra-spatial, extra-temporal Spirit only, not co-existing with human flesh, the universe, or nature.

The notion of Jesus as atonement for sins is another issue, and also foreign to Judaism. According to the latter, there is NO NEED for a vicarious atonement by the Messiah or by G-d for human sins. G-d states in the Eternal Covenant that it is WE who must atone for our own sins: this is based on the free will that G-d bestowed upon us all, which He did not bestow upon the angels in heaven (another point of disagreement between Judaism and Christianity). To this day, Judaism believes that wrongdoing toward others must be atoned for by our seeking forgiveness from those we have wronged, not from G-d. Whenever salvation and redemption in the Hebrew Bible are mentioned, it is in connection with PHYSICAL salvation rather than the World to Come. The afterlife is a consequence of one's own behavior in this life, but it should never be thought of as the primary goal of this life. Judaism states that the goal of humanity on earth is the love of G-d and the love of one's neighbor (and enemy, as Jesus noted), moral behavior toward humans and animals, following the teachings of the Law as best one can in all aspects of one's daily life, and striving to do better the next time when one is not successful, which is often the case.


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