Why the seeming difference is acceptance of Islam and Mormonism?


#1

What I am trying to grap is my mind is why there seems to be a different level of acceptance of Islam over Mormonism? I have heard that there are three “revealed” religions - Judiam, Catholicism and Islam. What is it that gives the revelation of Mohamed and the Koran “acceptability”. Both seem to have the same origination with a poor, uneducated young man who got a revelation that neither Judiasm or Catholicism was right and the Koran (Mohamed) or the Book of Morman (Smith) was the correction God provided. There seems to be many similiarites between the two - nonbelief in the trinity, polygamy, abstinance from alcohol, strict adherence to the dictates of their religion for slavation, etc.


#2

The LDS church is too new and is still in the “test of faith” period.

Muhammad received the Qur’An not too long after the assention of Jesus. I can’t remember the exact date, but I want to say it was in the 500’s.


#3

I was wondering if there was some connection with Ishmael’s blessing in Gen 17:20 and Mohammed that would allow for the acceptance of Islam?


#4

Mohammed was born sometime around 570 A.D. I think. That’s quite some time after the establishment of Christianity (Catholicism.)


#5

[quote=Jo’s_Dad]The LDS church is too new and is still in the “test of faith” period.

Muhammad received the Qur’An not too long after the assention of Jesus. I can’t remember the exact date, but I want to say it was in the 500’s.
[/quote]

So 500 years is not a long time?

So Martin Luthers schism (the reformation) occured shortly after Jesus ascended into heaven too?

Does a short time frame lend to credibility of a religion? It’s more right if the gap is shorter?

What IS a long time? :hmmm: By your definition or by standard?


#6

What I am trying to grap is my mind is why there seems to be a different level of acceptance of Islam over Mormonism? I have heard that there are three “revealed” religions - Judiam, Catholicism and Islam.

Here’s what the DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS (Nostra Aetate) states regarding all non-Christian religions…

From ancient times down to the present, there is found among various peoples a certain perception of that hidden power which hovers over the course of things and over the events of human history; at times some indeed have come to the recognition of a Supreme Being, or even of a Father. This perception and recognition penetrates their lives with a profound religious sense.

in Hinduism…Buddhism, in its various forms… Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing “ways,” comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites…

… The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men.

The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems…

Note the word, “also.” This does not seem to imply a greater esteem, but simply states that the Church also esteems the Moslems as it does other religions which “reflect a ray of truth which enlightens all men.”

And with regard to Judaism, which the document spends the majority of its content discussing…

God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers…the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel’s spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone. … It is, therefore, the burden of the Church’s preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God’s all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.

Each of these religions have some ray of truth within them, even Mormonism. Mormonism didn’t make “honorable mention” in this declaration simply because it is not a major world religion.

The only source of truth is divine revelation, either natural or otherwise. Thus, what you “heard” about “revealed” religions is, in my view, false. Any religion which reflects a ray of truth must have received some revelation, even if merely natural.


#7

Moreover, I would clump Mormonism with the other polytheistic religions, while Islam is strictly monotheistic like Judaism and Christianity. Thus, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism have closer kinship with regard to this fundamental truth about God than does Mormonism, which claims there are many gods, and that God the Father was once a man who became a god, who has a god of his own that he worshipped (ie. the Mormon doctrine of eternal progresson).


#8

We also know that Joseph Smith was a fraud and a charlatan prior to founding the LDS Church, and possibly after… I am sure that has a lot to do with it.
Read the book No Man Knows My History : The Life of Joseph Smith


#9

[quote=gilliam]We also know that Joseph Smith was a fraud and a charlatan prior to founding the LDS Church, and possibly after… I am sure that has a lot to do with it.
Read the book No Man Knows My History : The Life of Joseph Smith
[/quote]

I own the book and its great. I highly recommend it.

Of course I also have several Books of Mormon and all four LDS holy book sets.


#10

[quote=Magnolia]What I am trying to grap is my mind is why there seems to be a different level of acceptance of Islam over Mormonism? I have heard that there are three “revealed” religions - Judiam, Catholicism and Islam. What is it that gives the revelation of Mohamed and the Koran “acceptability”. Both seem to have the same origination with a poor, uneducated young man who got a revelation that neither Judiasm or Catholicism was right and the Koran (Mohamed) or the Book of Morman (Smith) was the correction God provided. There seems to be many similiarites between the two - nonbelief in the trinity, polygamy, abstinance from alcohol, strict adherence to the dictates of their religion for slavation, etc.
[/quote]

I think you misunderstand several things. First of all, orthodox Christians do not accept Islam as “revealed” in the sense that we believe that its doctrines are divine. We (at least those of us, Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox, who think Vatican II more or less got it right here) believe that there are elements of truth and goodness within it.

Islam is referred to as a “revealed” religion because it claims revelation. A “revealed” religion is one with a transcendent God who makes His will known to human beings through a prophet or a sacred book or so on. The three “Abrahamic” religions are generally identified as “revealed” religions as opposed, say, to nature religions. I don’t think it’s a particularly helpful category, but that is what is meant. No acceptance of the claims of Islam is implied.

There are other religions that would meet these criteria, but these three are the major ones. That’s one reason to exclude Mormonism, but the main reason is that Mormonism is a form of Christianity, albeit a seriously heretical form. Mormons, after all, consider themselves Christians, while Muslims do not. Of course it’s all a matter of definition–I know that many here follow Hilaire Belloc in classifying Islam as a Christian heresy. But normally Islam is not so classified, whereas Mormonism is.

Edwin


#11

This question came about after hearing a Catholic speaker say that there are three revealed religions - Judiasm, Catholicism and Islam. Several of us were talking among ourselves and I asked why Islam? Was this just Seattle PC? Our converstation circled around the possibility of Islam being born of the promise to Ishamael but none of really knew.
I am somewhat familiar with Mormonism as my SIL and her family are Mormon. I see so many similiarities between how Islam and Mormonism got started. Poor, uneducated young man get a revelation that neither Judisam or Catholicism is right, etc.

The CCC 841 talks about the relationship with the Muslims as first among those who acknowledge the Creator…hmmm, as I was typing this I just realized that maybe first here means order, as in first in line, but not neccessarily rank, like best. At first when I read Jo’s Dad’s response I thought it made no sense to me but now I am wondering??? First because they are first in line?

I have read No Man Knows My History and found it very interesting but also sad that many people are still following him.

Are there any good books on Islam you would recommend? I don’t want a deep, complete theological guide
but would like to know a little more.


#12

The CCC 841 talks about the relationship with the Muslims as first among those who acknowledge the Creator…hmmm, as I was typing this I just realized that maybe first here means order, as in first in line, but not neccessarily rank, like best.

The CCC 841 is quoting from Lumen Gentium 16, which states:

  1. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh. ******(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”,(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.
    I think “in the first place among these” deals with an admittedly abiguous ranking of some sort with Islam being “first” among other religions (excepting Judaism) whose object of worship is the one true God. It appeas Judaism is ranked first due to it special place in salvation history. Yet, I think Islam’s ranking is a recognition of Islam’s influence as a world religion, not to be confused with an approbation of the teachings of Islam over any other religion.

#13

Are there any good books on Islam you would recommend? I don’t want a deep, complete theological guide
but would like to know a little more.

From Catholic Answers, a quick starter booklet is Islam: A Catholic Perspective** .**

Here are some others…

Islam: A Catholic Answers Special Report
Islam:Friend Or Foe? - Compact DiscIslam Information PackageAnswering IslamEndless Jihad: A Catholic Answers Special Report


#14

[quote=Magnolia]What I am trying to grap is my mind is why there seems to be a different level of acceptance of Islam over Mormonism? …
[/quote]

It is politically correct to accept Islam. Several groups of Islamic are at war with us so our country, being what it is, makes it politically correct to accept Islamics just like homosexuals, and other minorities.

The LDS (Mormons) are a home grown religion. They are an enormous business and large church in the west. They are growing fast as well. Where I am from they were often the majority of population and needed no protesction like the Islamics might. From Canada down to Mexico along the Rockies you will find LDS temple after temple after stakehouse after stakehouse. Perhaps because in places like Utah they are a majority we just accept them as equals and they do not need political correctness to be protected?

Anyway, I’ve never seen where the LDS were treated poorly (outside of some Protestant churches I went to that is). I have seen where some Islamics were looked at with curiosity, especially post 911 in airports.

God loves us all and we should treat each other the same way we would treat God, with respect and dignity.

God bless,


#15

Hi Magnolia,

I am a Muslim, so take my recomendations with some trepidition :wink:

Stay away from any book about Islam with the word “Jihad” in its title. Also, books on Islam sponsored by any religious group.

  1. Karen Armstrong has some great books on Islam. She is a historian. Very unpartial.
  2. Martin Lings - “The Life of Muhammad” - A biography on the Prophet Muhammad.
  3. “Islam for Dummies” By John Emerick

#16

[quote=Malachi4U]It is politically correct to accept Islam. Several groups of Islamic are at war with us so our country, being what it is, makes it politically correct to accept Islamics just like homosexuals, and other minorities.

The LDS (Mormons) are a home grown religion. They are an enormous business and large church in the west. They are growing fast as well. Where I am from they were often the majority of population and needed no protesction like the Islamics might. From Canada down to Mexico along the Rockies you will find LDS temple after temple after stakehouse after stakehouse. Perhaps because in places like Utah they are a majority we just accept them as equals and they do not need political correctness to be protected?

Anyway, I’ve never seen where the LDS were treated poorly (outside of some Protestant churches I went to that is). I have seen where some Islamics were looked at with curiosity, especially post 911 in airports.

God loves us all and we should treat each other the same way we would treat God, with respect and dignity.

God bless,
[/quote]

Unfortunately sometimes our Seattle PC can gloss over the true Catholic teaching even when it is presented by a Catholic theologian.So I wanted to find out what people on the CA forums thoughts were. I often will look things up in the CCC to help my understanding. I hope I didn’t give the impression that I have any ill will towards people of other faiths. Just looking for clarification and since I am part of the forums I told my friends I would ask here.
Thanks,
M


#17

[quote=Munawar]Hi Magnolia,

I am a Muslim, so take my recomendations with some trepidition :wink:

Stay away from any book about Islam with the word “Jihad” in its title. Also, books on Islam sponsored by any religious group.

  1. Karen Armstrong has some great books on Islam. She is a historian. Very unpartial.
  2. Martin Lings - “The Life of Muhammad” - A biography on the Prophet Muhammad.
  3. “Islam for Dummies” By John Emerick
    [/quote]

Hello Munawar,

Thanks for the recommendations. I have some dear friends that are Muslim from Iran and our families are very close, sharing many good times, birthdays, anniversaries and unfortunatley some sickness also. I have met their family and friends and many have become our friends also. My desire is to know more of their beliefs to better know them as people.
M


#18

[quote=Malachi4U]So 500 years is not a long time?

So Martin Luthers schism (the reformation) occured shortly after Jesus ascended into heaven too?

Does a short time frame lend to credibility of a religion? It’s more right if the gap is shorter?

What IS a long time? :hmmm: By your definition or by standard?
[/quote]

500 years vs 1800 years.

I’m sure you’ve watched Sesame Street. Which is bigger?

And I said nothing about credibility, but a religion that’s been around for 1500 years vs. one that’s only been around 150 years is going to have a bit more acceptance.


#19

[quote=Magnolia]This question came about after hearing a Catholic speaker say that there are three revealed religions - Judiasm, Catholicism and Islam. Several of us were talking among ourselves and I asked why Islam? Was this just Seattle PC? Our converstation circled around the possibility of Islam being born of the promise to Ishamael but none of really knew.
I am somewhat familiar with Mormonism as my SIL and her family are Mormon. I see so many similiarities between how Islam and Mormonism got started. Poor, uneducated young man get a revelation that neither Judisam or Catholicism is right, etc.
?

I have read No Man Knows My History and found it very interesting but also sad that many people are still following him.

Tsk tsk, only a measly 12 million, and now the 5th largest religion in America. They doubled their membership in 20 years. :thumbsup: BJ
[/quote]


#20

[quote=Jo’s_Dad]500 years vs 1800 years.

I’m sure you’ve watched Sesame Street. Which is bigger?

And I said nothing about credibility, but a religion that’s been around for 1500 years vs. one that’s only been around 150 years is going to have a bit more acceptance.
[/quote]

Mock, insult, take out of context and miss-self-interpret.

You are a Protestant!:wink:

God bless,


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