why the split between Jews and Christians

Ok Bubba, now I will let my imagine come to words: Note this is not strict catholic theology but thoughts about the whole matter

I am of the belief that the split had to happen between the Jews and Christianity. The Jews were to be dispursed and they were to be hunted down and killed. The USA went into WWII, after pearl harbor happened through-as history shows- some stange mishaps that allowed the japanese to “surprize attack”. Only the USA was strong enough to kill the nazies and thus find the concentration camps and stop the slaughter. All this happened so that Israel, the nation, could be re-born again in one day. As it is Written. And it is also Written that the Jews from all the world will come to israel. This is happening.

back to Christianty:We had our own problems to stay alive. Rome was killing us. Chrisitianity nearly died away. But what a plan God had.He takes our enemy and makes it the very vehicle by which His Church could flourish. Perhaps Rome was allowed to be so that it could blend with Christianty just so that the Roman Catholic Church could bring the Gosple of Jesus Christ to all the known world. And that she did very well.

But back to the Jews and israel and most important jerusalem.: So why all did this happen? The deaths, the seemingly impossible survival, gaining back jerusalem. There are stories told by all sides of their first war of giant beings ( angels methinks) who appeared and saved battles. I mean why? If the jews don’t matter anymore to God?

And think about this: why a Second Coming at all? If Jesus is to be King of kings and Lord of lords and rule in Jreusalem and sit on David’s Throne, why a need to Come Again. He was raised from the dead. The Veil was ripped from the top down, showing the inner most holy place to all. Jesus could have shown all His Mighty Power given unto Him by His Father, right then and there. take the Throne away from herod, the sniffiling little lustfilled jerk. And rule. A King Jesus would be the Jewish messiah. Enemies would bow down or die.

But, nnnnooooooo, Jesus goes up back to His Father. He does so because prophesy still needs to be filled. What was written about the jews must still happen. Israel must still be born in a day. The jews must once again turn their face to their God. They must KNOW that He is Their God and They ARE His People.

King Jesus has His Bride. Us, Chrisitans. But the Jews, they will become the Wife of God Himself. That is a detail many kinda forget. And when God does that aweful mighty something during coming wars to save Israel, then and only then, will they Know Him once and for all. Because today most of israel is secular. That is gonna change.

There is always a reason why things happen. And God uses all events for His Will. His perfect plan which we humble human beings try desparetly to figure out. The brightest, the best, the most holy of us, always fail in that understanding. By the Power of the Holy Spirit our journey into understanding God is less burdensome, by His Comfort.

The Jewish/Christian schism is a topic of great interest to me so thanks for starting this thread.

I’m more than willing to entertain heterodox theology. That’s why I label myself a Zen Catholic. But I will insist on grounding the discussion in facts as far as possible.

Before we explore why I think it’s worth understanding what. Christian history tends to end with Acts and then to shift to the Christianization of the Roman Empire. Lost in the shuffle is the Jewish wars with Rome that led to the destruction of Jerusalem (67AD) and then Israel entirely (136AD) and the schism between Judaism and Christianity.

It is not an exageration to say that Israel self-destructed in that period. The Jews did not merely reject Jesus as Messiah but they rejected Roman rule until they were finally slaughtered and the survivors dispersed.

It’s interesting to consider how history might have turned out differently if more Jews had listened to Jesus. Imagine Christianity growing among the Jews at the same time that it was being spread among the gentiles. At the point that Christianity became the dominant religion of the Roman Empire the seat of Christianity would still have been Jerusalem (as it was in Acts). Jews (Jewish Christians to be precise) would thus have become the leading clergy of Christianity and we would probably have had a succession of Jewish popes. Most interestingly, there would be no antisemitism since that was a product of the Jewish/Roman wars.

While there were hard relations between Jews and Christians in the time of Acts, including persecution and some killings, Christians were still able to convert Jews. This was likely the reason that Rabbi Akiba promoted Bar Kohba as Messiah: it turned Christians from being just another Jewish sect into traitors for early Christians were unwilling to fight Rome and unwilling to recognize another Messiah. Jewish Christians were then driven out of Judaism en masse and Rabbinical Judaism, which had previously just been one of the major sects, became normative.

So I don’t buy your theory mainly because the Jewish diaspora and the schism are part of the same historical events.

At the same time, I have a hard time believing that the Jews, for all their bad choices, have been disinherited as Replacement Theology suggests.

I can’t help but look at the schism as a breakdown like Adam and Even in the Garden of Eden. Just as Adam and Eve’s choice led to a broken world, so the Jewish choices in 1C-2C AD led to a broken kingdom of God.

I think something like this is probably right. But the problem is that Jews who convert to Catholicism lose their Jewish identity unless they keep the Torah right down to the restrictions on marrying non-Jews. And there is no provision for this in Catholicism.

If Jews still have a role in God’s plan then something is missing from Catholicism.

I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for God to save secular Israel. Once Iran goes nuclear it’s only a matter of time before Jews are forced to leave Israel again. I’m not inclined to think of this Israel as the Israel. There have already been two diasporas so a third is not out of the question.

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