Why was the ending of the protestant Lord's Prayer added to the NO Mass?

I'm sort of curious as to the reasoning behind the addition of the words, "For the kingdom and the power and the glory are yours now and forever" to the Our Father prayer in the NO Mass.

Anyone know the reason for this?

[quote="DihydrogenOxide, post:1, topic:179579"]
I'm sort of curious as to the reasoning behind the addition of the words, "For the kingdom and the power and the glory are yours now and forever" to the Our Father prayer in the NO Mass.

Anyone know the reason for this?

[/quote]

It's not a "Protestant" thing. It is found in the Didache (Catechism 2760) and many early liturgies. It's still used (in one form or another) in many present Eastern liturgies. The fact that it is used by Protestants may have been a factor for its introduction to the Roman Rite. I don't think ecumenical intentions towards the Orthodox would have warranted its inclusion, since it was already present in Eastern Catholic Rites, and there's no reason to refashion the Roman Rite to make it Eastern when it's not an Eastern Rite.

It is not part of the Our Father. It is the response to the priest's embolism after the Our Father.

Now if only people would stop trying to raise my hands up while they say it. :wink:

1 Like

I always thought that ending was like a separate prayer and called the Glory Be. Our priest used to hold his hands in a prayer position all through the entire thing, now he has his hands down on the bible, holy book, right at the altar during the entire thing. for awhile he would have his hands out and then at the glory be he would fold his hands in prayer position as joining the people. I always hand my hands inprayer position so I liked that. As it seemed he was joining the people in the prayer. Well anyways no one else does it. they just fold there hands and do nothing.:( i now just close my eyes and not look:)much better for me. I just concentrate on the words. If I am at a mass that they don't include the glory be I just quietly lip sync it. Even when watching and praying with EWTN mass.

[quote="japhy, post:2, topic:179579"]
It's not a "Protestant" thing. It is found in the Didache (Catechism 2760) and many early liturgies. It's still used (in one form or another) in many present Eastern liturgies. The fact that it is used by Protestants may have been a factor for its introduction to the Roman Rite. I don't think ecumenical intentions towards the Orthodox would have warranted its inclusion, since it was already present in Eastern Catholic Rites, and there's no reason to refashion the Roman Rite to make it Eastern when it's not an Eastern Rite.

It is not part of the Our Father. It is the response to the priest's embolism after the Our Father.

[/quote]

Hmmm...interesting. I was always told it had changed to this later on...

[quote="mwscott, post:3, topic:179579"]
Now if only people would stop trying to raise my hands up while they say it. ;)

[/quote]

'
I second that. It seems a little to weird when people do that, as though it's a touchy feel-y" family thing.

[quote="Through_Him, post:4, topic:179579"]
I always thought that ending was like a separate prayer and called the Glory Be. Our priest used to hold his hands in a prayer position all through the entire thing, now he has his hands down on the bible, holy book, right at the altar during the entire thing. for awhile he would have his hands out and then at the glory be he would fold his hands in prayer position as joining the people. I always hand my hands inprayer position so I liked that. As it seemed he was joining the people in the prayer. Well anyways no one else does it. they just fold there hands and do nothing.:( i now just close my eyes and not look:)much better for me. I just concentrate on the words. If I am at a mass that they don't include the glory be I just quietly lip sync it. Even when watching and praying with EWTN mass.

[/quote]

Well, that's interesting. I never went to a Mass where the Glory Be was said in that part.

What I meant is it is very similar to the glory be. The place I pray or hear the entire glory be is in the rosary. too bad it isn’t said more at mass. I’m not sure it it was in Latin originally as I am not that into speaking Latin.

[quote="DihydrogenOxide, post:1, topic:179579"]
I'm sort of curious as to the reasoning behind the addition of the words, "For the kingdom and the power and the glory are yours now and forever" to the Our Father prayer in the NO Mass.

Anyone know the reason for this?

[/quote]

I am thinking the protestant version is not exactly the same, when in my protesting days.
Don't they just say kingdom and power ( this they are in too) are yours forever. ? I don't even want to find out really that is in the past. :)

Yeah, I think I have an idea of what you’re trying to get at…I can’t seem to think of it myself at the moment…

You’re right. Japhy explained some of the origin details above. I think they are essentially the same, except for different wordings.

Because that was the original Catholic version of the Lord’s prayer.

It’s not really ‘different’, it’s just that they use the old formal English and we use modern English.

For Thine is the kingdom, power, and glory, forever and ever.
vs
For the kingdom,the power and the glory are yours, now and forever.

Why ICEL modernized the language of the doxology when they didn’t modernize the prayer itself (Rome won’t let them) is another one of decisions I’ll never understand.

[quote="Phemie, post:11, topic:179579"]
It's not really 'different', it's just that they use the old formal English and we use modern English.

For Thine is the kingdom, power, and glory, forever and ever.
vs
For the kingdom,the power and the glory are yours, now and forever.

Why ICEL modernized the language of the doxology when they didn't modernize the prayer itself (Rome won't let them) is another one of decisions I'll never understand.

[/quote]

I just see it differently than you do. I'm not explaining myself very well. Sorry.
I see a difference in the personalization in the two phrases. The second one is more reverent. And did not forget about now. It isn't anything to get too upset about.
What is ICEL?

I just looked it up, thanks

Here is another reference that is from the CCC and unites the prayers

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s2a4.htm

This explains more why we are to pray the words we pray. Hope this helps and it sure even helped me.:)

FWIW, “For thine is the kingdom…” was a more or less standard doxology (conclusion) used in most Jewish prayers at the time of Jesus. There was no reason to mention it in particular. It was as much understood as saying, “Amen” at the end of a prayer.

Whether or not it was actually uttered by Christ doesn’t matter; it was doubtless used LITURGICALLY by most Christians through the ages.

Syriac Orthodox (and Syrian Catholics) who use Aramaic as their liturgical language use this doxology.

So do the Assyrian Church of the East and Chaldean Catholics–who also use Aramaic.

Orthodox (and Byzantine Catholiics) end the Lord’s Prayer with the Priest saying “For thine is the Kingdom…of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages.” Why? Because this is the standard doxology of all prayers in this liturgical tradition.

Coptic Orthodox (and Coptic Catholics) say, “For thine is the kingdom…THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.” Why? Because that is how they end most prayers, as far as I can tell.

So, as you see, it’s not a “Protestants do this and Catholics do that” thing.

Also, whenever quotations from Scripture have been used in the classical liturgies, they frequently are in a “liturgical” form, and not verbatim quotes, as you can see in the Byzantine and Coptic liturgies. Another example: the Words of Institution take a different form in the different liturgies, though they are all ultimately based on Scripture.

No, it has been part of the Liturgy for millenia, where the Protestants err in thinking that it is part of Scripture instead of a doxology.

Take a look at the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, which is used by the Eastern Catholics (and has been since +Chrysostom wrote it in the 4th Century).

People:
Our Father, …,
but deliver us from evil.

Priest:
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.

Thanks so much to everyone answering this. It has helped me to understand this so much better. :thumbsup:

God bless and thanks again for straightening things out for me.

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