Why Will There Be A Judgment Day?


#1

Why reward or punish someone based on what they believe, or even what they have done in this world? Why should someone who rejects God in this life be punished in the next?

If,as some have suggested, Hitler could have repented before he died and been granted salvation, while how many of the 6,000,000 jews he was responsible for murdering would be suffering in hell, according to some beliefs… then why should he not be given the opportunity to repent after death? Why have anyone condemed to eternal hell? Why is the forgivness espoused by the Church and other branches of Christianity conditional upon the sinner asking for it? What purpose does such a requirement serve?


#2

You have asked quite a lot of questions, some of which appear to be contradictory. I am LDS, not Catholic. :slight_smile: I will answer your questions from an LDS point of view. Catholics can answer them from their own.

We believe that God ultimately punishes people for what they do, not what they believe; but what they believe affects what they do. Somebody who doesn’t believe in God is unlikely to want to keep His commandments (or if he does, he will do so for other reasons than because they came from God, and will feel free to circumvent them if it suits his purpose), and that is what brings the punishment.

If, as some have suggested, Hitler could have repented before he died and been granted salvation, . . .

We believe that the sin of murder is unpardonable. So whether Hitler could have been saved if he had repented is a questionable one from LDS point of view.

. . . while how many of the 6,000,000 jews he was responsible for murdering would be suffering in hell, according to some beliefs…

Not according to our belief!

. . . then why should he not be given the opportunity to repent after death?

We believe it is possible for most sins to be repented of after death; but whether that applies to Hitler or not I cannot say. I know the theology; but I cannot judge an individual. God knows all the details, and has reserved that judgement for Himself.

Why have anyone condemed to eternal hell?

The prominent question you seem to be asking in this post is why does God punish the sinner? The best answer to that question that I have found is in the Book of Mormon, Alma chapter 42. Feel free to study that online, and tell me what you think.

Why is the forgivness espoused by the Church and other branches of Christianity conditional upon the sinner asking for it?

Forgiveness is primarily conditional on repentance. God will forgive the sinner who genuinely and sincerely repents, even if he does not ask for forgiveness.

What purpose does such a requirement serve?

Asking (God) for forgiveness is a demonstration of our faith in Him. If it is God against whom we have sinned, and He is the one who will have to forgive us, then it stands to reason that we must approach Him in faith to ask for His forgiveness.

zerinus


#3

I’ll try to help explain about hell, but first, see this article from the CAF library regarding mortal sin. i’ll gladly dig up more info for you and will do so, but it will take me a bit of time to post it here, so for now, take a look at this:

catholic.com/library/Mortal_Sin.asp

catholic.com/library/Hell_There_Is.asp

catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp

catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

catholic.com/library/The_Antichrist.asp


#4

Here is some info i found at www.newadvent.org regarding judgement
and hell.

newadvent.org/cathen/08550a.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/08550a.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/08549a.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

See this also:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm


#5

As long as classify Rejection of God as not searching for Truth, then I’m not sure where the problem is?

The books of Wisdom are quite clear that the fool will be punished for laughing at the wise and acting irresponsibly.

I am unfortunately, woefully lacking in knowledge on modern Judaism, what books of our Bible do you consider inspired or worthy of reading?

You are not an Orthodox Jew, If memory serves me correctly?

Peace and God Bless.


#6

Valke, try reading (it’s short) C. S. Lewis’ “The Great Divorce.” While the author was Anglican, not Catholic, the general conception of heaven/hell and of judgment he gives are very enlightening. I especially recommend the section about the woman and her husband and the remarks on the tyranny of those who will not themselves be happy and thus seek to hold heaven itself hostage to them. Also he touches on the key concept that people CHOOSE hell. While in his conception there is apparently a chance AFTER death to choose heaven (as opposed to, but not contraindicating entirely, the Catholic doctrine of purgatory), few do so, and in their cases the hell they leave has become for them purgatory. It isn’t, in the end, that people do not have chance after chance after chance from an all-merciful God, but that, in the end, some FREELY CHOOSE, to paraphrase Milton, “to reign in hell rather than serve in heaven.” Those who chose hell have what seems to them good and sufficient reason, and this IN SPITE of clearly being shown, and clearly being offered, the chance for salvation. God is not capricious; He does not hold us to the impossible, and He does not see damned without cause.

It comes down, in the end, to us deciding whether we ‘out-do’ the Almighty in forgiveness, by attempting to save even those who would DETEST that salvation and who would never ever feel the good and who in effect would be in torment even more than they have now in hell. . .or whether we trust to Almighty God and His mercy and JUSTICE. After all, none of US is ‘damning’ any person unless we freely choose to damn our own selves; we may have a very great influence on others which is why we should be very careful not to be ‘millstones’ around the neck of another, but in the end each individual makes a choice; and God (in His mercy) has given each and every one of us sufficient grace for salvation. It is up to us to take it, not for Him to force it–an action which would be clearly unjust and unfair and thus not an action He would EVER take.


#7

I’m a Conservative Jew. As a Jew, I firmly believe we are judged by our actions and that what we do in this world is of prime importance.


#8

Judgement Day has been and gone!

Sentence was passed on this world. Because of its wickedness, it was condemned to death

The Son of God CHOSE to die in our place.

He will come at the end of time to collect those whose names are written in the Book of Life.:slight_smile:


#9

Why not just collect everyone? What difference, form the divine perspective, where we are all judged lacking before God, does it make as to who is wheat and who is chaff?


#10

Myself, I think what a person believe reflects what they do-- at least in a general sense. So, while we all do make mistakes and sin before God, I think God’s judges in proportion that which he has revealed in contrast to that which he has enabled them to believe.

[quote=Valke2]Why should someone who rejects God in this life be punished in the next?
[/quote]

I think, in a sense, if you’re aksing for why the ultimate permanancy of the final judgement, the reason is because the actions we make are permanent and we cannot take them back.

By God’s grace even the greatest evil can be turned into something good-- and all things work toward God’s plan no doubt. But not all things we do are necessarilly the positive way of bringing about God’s plan either. We can accomplish God’s will in a very negative way too.

[quote=Vlake2]If,as some have suggested, Hitler could have repented before he died and been granted salvation, while how many of the 6,000,000 jews he was responsible for murdering would be suffering in hell, according to some beliefs… then why should he not be given the opportunity to repent after death?
[/quote]

To be clear, since I think this was me who brought up this proposition, I would need to stress that I highly doubt that 6,000,000 Jews went to hell because they did not confess Jesus as Lord with their lips.

More often than not, people ‘believe’ in God by their actions-- and, from my own Catholic perspective, I’m quite positive that many Jewish people do believe in Jesus as the Christ even if they don’t know that Jesus is the Christ.

This isn’t to say that we are saved by our works. We are not saved by our works. We are saved by the Holy Spirit as he works within us to manifest the actions that God has fore-ordained that we should walk in. Many people, however, simply do not walk in the paths that God has fore-ordained for them.

Whether this is something that happens because of circumstances beyound their control, or something which they deliberately choose, only God’s Spirit can say for sure.

Although it’s a Christian thought more than than a Jewish one, if the Jewish people could be saved during the ancient Biblical era due to their faith in God and his promise in an unknown messiah yet to be revealed, I’m also sure that modern Jewish people could likewise still be saved due to their faith in God and his promise in a messiah that, from a Christian perspective, is still unknown to them.

[quote=Valke2]Why have anyone condemed to eternal hell? Why is the forgivness espoused by the Church and other branches of Christianity conditional upon the sinner asking for it? What purpose does such a requirement serve?
[/quote]

More often than not, it’s because the confession of sins does tend to lead one closer to God. However, the forgivness espoused by the Church and other branches of Christianity is not always conditional upon the sinner asking for it. On a spiritual level, the sins of our lives can and do wreathe havok and blaspheny upon the state of our immortal souls.

So, unlike the Gnostics, who beleived that their immortal souls were immune to their physical sins, the Church effectively teaches the exact opposite-- our sins can and do often inflict damage upon our spirits. Some sins can mortally wound our souls-- therefore cutting off our ‘spiritual umbilical cord’ to God so to speak.

In this sense, confession is not merely a game of semantics where God approves of people because they give him glory. People give God glory when they allow the Holy Spirit to repair and restore their own spirit. Therefore confession is not just repenting before the Lord. Confession is a visible manifestation of God’s invisible grace working within the believer and healing their soul so that they may inherit eternal life with God in the world to come-- and this is yet another sacrament that leads us toward the Eucharist.

That’s how I see it anyway.


#11

We should not be afraid of saying that a Jew may well have gone to hell, despite the fact that he was killed in the holocaust.

And it wasn’t 6 million. More like 2 (at best).

Peace and God Bless.


#12

This statement (in bold) is going to get you in trouble…you better provide some reliable source to back that comment up;)


#13

Keep your peace and your blessing. From you I don’t need them.


#14

I’m not following your logic here.

First of all, I’m not afraid of saying a Jew may well have gone to hell, especially since I’m not even afraid of saying a Christian may well have gone to hell.

It’s ultimately up to God as far as I can tell.

But, beside that…wow…I think I’ve just encountered a holocaust denier, via the internet, for the first time in real life.

If so, I was starting to think they were as mythlike as they think the holocaust was. Apparently I was wrong.

So, if you are a holocaust denier, then as Valke2 has already said, keep your peace and your blessing. And likewise, if you are a holocaust denier, then as Karin has likewise said to you Magicsilence, you better provide some reliable source to back that comment up.


#15

Hmmm…I didn’t notice your signature before. Sorry about the harsh tone in my reply.

But seriously…think about what you’re saying.

It seems fairly obvious to all those who have seriously researched this issue (not to mention those who have actually lived through it) that the six million figure is most likely very accurate.

Peace and God Bless.


#16

over 1 million jewish children alone were murdered in the Shoah.

Imagine being a people that numbered about 13 million total over the world and having more than 1 million of your children murdered, along with 5 million of your women and men.

To deny it now is monstorous. To deny it later, when there will be no survivors to offer testimony, will be common.


#17

I hope not Valke2!


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