Why won't the Catholic bishops solve the 'gay priest problem?'

**[size=4]NOR’s New **[/size]Oxford Notes

[font=Arial][font=Trebuchet MS]New Oxford Notes Index[/font]

[/font]17 September 2004

Why won’t the Catholic bishops solve the ‘gay priest problem?’

The solution to that problem is simple and self-evident, according to Karl Keating, a lucid and sensible thinker if ever there was one: “I know of homosexual priests who live chastely…. Such priests deserve our respect. On the other hand, there are homosexual priests who are ‘gays’ — they have chosen to live the homosexual lifestyle. It is from the ranks of these priests that most (not all, admittedly) of the abuse cases have arisen. The priestly scandal has not been so much about priests abusing children as about homosexual priests acting out their homosexuality with teenagers and young adults.” Keating then gives his solution:

"1. If a priest is ‘gay’ — living a homosexual lifestyle — he should be removed from ministry immediately….

  1. If a priest is homosexual but not ‘gay’ — that is, if he is living chastely — let him continue in ministry until normal retirement.

  2. Exclude from seminary formation and ordination any homosexual, whether ‘gay’ or chaste…. The latter should not sign up for ‘guy-only’ work that will have him living with other men (thus putting him into near occasions of sin)…. He should be encouraged to serve the Church in other ways…. If the priesthood in this country were healthy, little or no harm would come from ordaining chaste homosexuals whose homosexuality is kept private. But we do not live in ordinary times."

[font=Trebuchet MS]Keating concludes: “The three-step process I propose would solve the abuse scandal almost overnight…” (This Rock, May/June).

The question is: Why do our bishops at the conference level seem unwilling to do what Keating proposes, what any conscientious Catholic would propose? It may have a lot to do with the Lavender Mafia and its allies in episcopal ranks.

You may remember the name of Joseph Kellenyi. He figured in Michael S. Rose’s book [font=Trebuchet MS]Goodbye, Good Men[/font], and in two of Rose’s articles in the NOR ([font=Trebuchet MS]Dec. 2002[/font] and [font=Trebuchet MS]June 2003[/font]). Kellenyi, who was once a seminarian at Mundelein in the Chicago area, makes the following statement about a conversation he had with the Rev. John F. Canary, the Rector of Mundelein Seminary, in August 1999:

Read more
http://www.cruxnews.com/NORNotes/nor-17sept04.html

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Too many of them, for various reasons, do not believe it is a problem. Satan has launched a final attack on the priesthood. It involves the same tactic employed by some at the time of Jesus, who feared their power was waning as Jesus attracted more and more disciples:
Strike the shephard, scatter the sheep. No priests, no Eucharist. No Eucharist, no life of the Church. Priests and Bishops are subject to temptation and corruption just like the rest of us. Attack on their weaknesses has become intensified. Love your priests and pray for them. Pray especially for those caught up in the deception that has resulted in condoning homosexual acts.

Very precise and accurate. I would rather believe this than alternative thoughts.
God’s will be done.

[quote=God saves]Too many of them, for various reasons, do not believe it is a problem. Satan has launched a final attack on the priesthood. It involves the same tactic employed by some at the time of Jesus, who feared their power was waning as Jesus attracted more and more disciples:
Strike the shephard, scatter the sheep. No priests, no Eucharist. No Eucharist, no life of the Church. Priests and Bishops are subject to temptation and corruption just like the rest of us. Attack on their weaknesses has become intensified. Love your priests and pray for them. Pray especially for those caught up in the deception that has resulted in condoning homosexual acts.
[/quote]

the most recent issue of Catholic World Report has a comprehensive 3 part cover article on the crisis and the bishop’s response, or non-response to it, and the implications for the future of the church. bottom line: if you are a pastor, or a parish council member, or someone with a leadership role in the parish or diocese, make it your business to push for obeying the directive of the Holy See to make sure civil registration of ownership of parish assets complies with canon law ownership. the set up in most American dioceses, where the bishop has civil title to all properties, including churches, schools, hospitals etc. in the legal entity of corporation sole, is fraught with danger, as the recent bankruptcy filings in several states are showing. Canon law specifies which assets are parish property, and civil records should reflect that reality.

The question as worded is biased assumes as fact without evidence that the Bishops are not solving the problem. We will never prevent all sin of any sort among priests. But is the occurance of homosexual scandals increasing or decreasing? Perhaps someone here has statitistics from someone without an agenda they can refer us to. Until then, let us not assume the worst of our leaders.

Keating is on the money, again. The bishops problems are much deeper than this one scandal.

Father Dahlby thinks there’s still a problem

click on link
THE ELEPHANT IN THE CHURCH a Catholic priest speaks out against homosexual priests

[quote=GloriaPatri4]Father Dahlby thinks there’s still a problem

[/quote]

Without a doubt there is still a problem. One errant priest is still a problem. The article you linked to related in its first point the link between homosexuality and the abuse scandals. So if it can be shown that incidents of sexual abuse has declined since the sixties, would this be accepted as evidence that the bishops are solving the problem of gay priest?

[quote=pnewton]Without a doubt there is still a problem. One errant priest is still a problem. The article you linked to related in its first point the link between homosexuality and the abuse scandals. So if it can be shown that incidents of sexual abuse has declined since the sixties, would this be accepted as evidence that the bishops are solving the problem of gay priest?
[/quote]

**Gee, I wonder:hmmm: if the priest that Karl is referring to in his E-Letter could be the same errant priest since as you say there is only one. :whistle: **

click on link
Karl Keating’s E-Letter of March 15, 2005

[quote=GloriaPatri4]**Gee, I wonder:hmmm: if the priest that Karl is referring to in his E-Letter could be the same errant priest since as you say there is only one. :whistle: **

click on link
Karl Keating’s E-Letter of March 15, 2005
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Gee you whistle a lot.

I did not say there was one errant priest. I said that one would still be a problem, as in, ergo, of course there is a problem. If we were to follow Mr. Keatings rather excellent suggestions there would still be a problem, just a lessening of the problem. My question still remains, are there any statistics showing whether or not things are better or worse?

Does
this
help
answer
your
question?

The national director of programs for the Boy Scouts of America has been charged with receiving and distributing child pornography:eek:

msnbc.msn.com/id/7326932/

GO
FIGURE.

[quote=pnewton]Gee you whistle a lot.

I did not say there was one errant priest. I said that one would still be a problem, as in, ergo, of course there is a problem. If we were to follow Mr. Keatings rather excellent suggestions there would still be a problem, just a lessening of the problem. My question still remains, are there any statistics showing whether or not things are better or worse?
[/quote]

Dear pnewton,

Thanks for clarifying. I apologize for misconstruing your post.

I guess the only statistics we can go by is there are still plenty of priests talking about the problem and I should think that if there weren’t still a problem then why is the Vatican still working on that important document regarding this issue?

God bless

similar thread click [thread=43855] here [/thread]

Silenced priest warns of gay crisis

By Julia Duin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
November 15, 2004

Starting today, 290 of the nation’s Catholic bishops will meet at the Capitol Hyatt for their yearly business meeting and to tie up loose ends on the massive sexual-abuse crisis that has shaken the U.S. Catholic Church to its core in the past two years.
Although it’s been less than a year since the church revealed that there were 10,667 cases of abuse committed by 4,392 priests in a 50-year period, the message at the meeting will be that the crisis is under control

Please read article
washingtontimes.com/national/20041115-124042-2061r.htm

[quote=puzzleannie]the most recent issue of Catholic World Report has a comprehensive 3 part cover article on the crisis and the bishop’s response, or non-response to it, and the implications for the future of the church. bottom line: if you are a pastor, or a parish council member, or someone with a leadership role in the parish or diocese, make it your business to push for obeying the directive of the Holy See to make sure civil registration of ownership of parish assets complies with canon law ownership. the set up in most American dioceses, where the bishop has civil title to all properties, including churches, schools, hospitals etc. in the legal entity of corporation sole, is fraught with danger, as the recent bankruptcy filings in several states are showing. Canon law specifies which assets are parish property, and civil records should reflect that reality.
[/quote]

Was there a thread started on this?

Sorry-But Byzantine Catholic does not belive there are any Gay priests. I posted this on another thread

Do all of you people live under a Rock? Priest have the highest rate of death from AIDS than any other Profession. I will put links here from the Kansas City Newspaper which ran a series as well as USA today, where I got mine as well as some Catholic sites

50% is the number -like it or not

[/font]http://www.christianitytoday.com /ct/2000/106/26.0.html

[/font]http://www.kcstar.com/projects/priests/

[/font]http://www.faithfulvoice.com/applicants.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/04/25/gay-catholics.htm

Gay Catholics angry, say they’ve been singled out
By Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY

http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gifhttp://images.usatoday.com/news/health/_photos/2002-04-25-gregory.jpgBy Pier Paolo Cit, APBishop Wilton Gregory says priesthood shouldn’t be “dominated” by homosexuals. http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gifGay Catholics were livid Wednesday when some church leaders meeting in Rome appeared to blame the sex abuse scandal on homosexual priests. Read more belowLatest news
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*]Alleged victim sues former L.A. bishop
[/list]Talk
[list]
*]Transcript: Plaintiff’s attorney Carmen Durso
[/list]Statements
[list]
*]U.S. cardinals’ statement on sex abuse
*]Text of U.S. cardinals’ letter to priests
[/list]Video
[list]
*]Shanley extradited on rape charges
[/list]From our archive
[list]
*]Zero-tolerance approach comes with conflicts
*]Priest arrested on child rape charges
*]Lay Catholics demand more church control
*]Law: Boy was partly at fault for abuse
*]Vatican summit confounds, angers
*]Church leaders stop short of zero-tolerance policy
*]Commentators find ‘tough’ talk, ‘evasion’ in Pope’s words
[/list]But when asked whether allowing homosexuals in the priesthood might foster a "bumper crop " of abusers, Cardinal Theodore McCarrick of Washington, D.C., said no “active homosexuals” should ever be admitted to seminary.

Catholic doctrine says homosexual orientation is not a sin, but homosexual behavior is “disordered.” And some church experts estimate that 20% to 50% of the current 45,000 U.S. priests are homosexual. In February, the pope’s spokesman, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, was quoted as saying homosexuals should not be in the priesthood, even if they maintain celibacy.

Former priest and psychotherapist A.W. Richard Sipe says his study of priests from 1960 to 1985, when many of the abuses now coming to light took place, found only about half of all priests maintained celibacy. He estimated 30% of all priests had a homosexual orientation.

“If we drove all the gay priests out of the priesthood, our Masses would be on videotape,” Wilkes says.

Contributing: Janet Kornblum

The reason that ‘all we have left is homosexual priests’ is because of the proliferation of homosexual bishops - as only they can ordain! If we rid the church of homosexual priests AND bishops we would have a proliferation of good, holy catholic, heterosexual men in the priesthood - who are currently being denied the priesthood.

SWING THE PENDULUM!!!

Angel

As far as I’m concerned, there is no gay priest “problem” as long as our gay priests remain celibate. If you’re celibate, what difference does it make whether you’re straight or gay?

It says in the Catechism that gay people are called to chastity, and if they practice chastity, they are just as capable of achieving Christian perfection as straight people are. THIS IS OFFICIAL CHURCH TEACHING. Again, I say if a gay priest is celibate, his sexual preference is a non-issue.

Homosexuality is not the problem. Breaking the vow of celibacy is.

We get the priests and bishops we deserve. God punished His people in the Old Testament, many times by permitting them wicked leaders. Why should we, the members of His Church, think we are above his wrath?

In addition to ridding the priesthood of deviants, we need to turn the Mass back into a worship of God and not a worship of our neighbor or “community” or some other stupid, esoteric concept.

[quote=Sgt. Howie]As far as I’m concerned, there is no gay priest “problem” as long as our gay priests remain celibate. If you’re celibate, what difference does it make whether you’re straight or gay?

Homosexuality is not the problem. Breaking the vow of celibacy is.
[/quote]

gay priests by definition are not chaste, gay means acting out the homosexual inclination, engaging in sex, soliciting for sex and all the other behaviors that are part of the gay lifestyle, including coming out and spending most of one’s time with other gays in the pursuit of sexual encounters. All gays are homosexual. All homosexuals are not gay. Gay is a self-selected term used by some homosexuals who act on their inclination to denote acceptance and promotion of that activity, especially through a political and social agenda and lobbying.

Celibacy means “unmarried” a man can be celibate and still be unchaste, abusing himself, women, other men, or children.

using the terms “gay” and “homosexual” interchangeably is offensive to the many courageous men and women struggling with the burden of homosexual inclination and temptations, many of whom are living lives of heroic virtue and chastity.

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