WhyIslam/ICNA condemn bombings


#1

whyislam.org/877/


#2

Hi Emad,

Can you tell me what is meant by this statement from your post?

“As Muslims we condemn the killing of innocent people for any reason.”

What does “innocent” mean?

Shouldn’t it be “anyone”?


#3

[quote=iamrefreshed]Hi Emad,

Can you tell me what is meant by this statement from your post?

“As Muslims we condemn the killing of innocent people for any reason.”

What does “innocent” mean?

Shouldn’t it be “anyone”?
[/quote]

Sure I would be more than happy to explain it to you. Not everyone is innocent. For example if they catch the person who was behind the bombing, killing him (through a government) isn’t killing someone innocent. Civilians are innocent in Islam.


#4

[quote=Emad]Sure I would be more than happy to explain it to you. Not everyone is innocent. For example if they catch the person who was behind the bombing, killing him (through a government) isn’t killing someone innocent. Civilians are innocent in Islam.
[/quote]

No Emad, I am talking about this particular situation. Please define innocent.

Are you saying these Brit’s were not innocent? Were the bomber’s innocent?

I await your response.


#5

[quote=iamrefreshed]No Emad, I am talking about this particular situation. Please define innocent.

Are you saying these Brit’s were not innocent? Were the bomber’s innocent?

I await your response.
[/quote]

Iamrefreshed I apologize, I thought I made it clear in the last post that they are innocent. In Islam it is forbidden to kill anyone unjustly. If the bombers are caught and proved guilty, in Islam they should be put to death because they killed innocent civilians. So to answer your question, yes everyone killed in this attack was innocent.


#6

Hello Emad,
I know few people like you condemn this. What Quran says about peaceful Muslims. Lets see some of them from Quran.


**Qur’an 48:11 “The desert Arabs who lagged behind [in fighting] will say to you (Muhammad): ‘We were engaged in (looking after) our flocks and our families.’ We have prepared for them a Blazing Fire!” **
Qur’an 48:17 “There is no blame for the blind, nor is it a sin for the lame, nor on one ill if he joins not in the fighting. But he who retreats, (Allah) will punish him with a painful doom.”
Qur’an 4:77 “Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: ‘Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?’”
Qur’an 4:78 “Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers built up strong and high! If some good befalls, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ but if evil, they say, ‘This is from you (Muhammad).’ Say: ‘All things are from Allah.’ So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?”
Qur’an 4:88 “What is the matter with you that you are divided about the Hypocrites? Allah has cast them back (causing their disbelief). Would you guide those whom Allah has thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah has thrown aside and led astray, never shall they find the Way.” Qur’an 4:89 “They wish that you would reject Faith, as they have, and thus be on the same footing: Do not be friends with them until they leave their homes in Allah’s Cause. But [and this is a hell of a but…] if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”
**Qur’an 4:97 “Verily, when angels take the souls of those who die wronging themselves (by staying home), they say: ‘In what (plight or engagement) were you?’ They reply: ‘Weak on the earth.’ Such men will find their abode in Hell, an evil resort!” **
**and also Qur’an 4:97 “Verily, when angels take the souls of those who die wronging themselves (by staying home), they say: ‘In what (plight or engagement) were you?’ They reply: ‘Weak on the earth.’ Such men will find their abode in Hell, an evil resort!” **
Many more verses are there.

In Christ,
selvaraj


#7

[quote=selvaraj]Hello Emad,
I know few people like you condemn this. What Quran says about peaceful Muslims. Lets see some of them from Quran.


Qur’an 48:11 “The desert Arabs who lagged behind [in fighting] will say to you (Muhammad): ‘We were engaged in (looking after) our flocks and our families.’ We have prepared for them a Blazing Fire!”
Qur’an 48:17 “There is no blame for the blind, nor is it a sin for the lame, nor on one ill if he joins not in the fighting. But he who retreats, (Allah) will punish him with a painful doom.”
Qur’an 4:77 “Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: ‘Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?’”
Qur’an 4:78 “Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers built up strong and high! If some good befalls, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ but if evil, they say, ‘This is from you (Muhammad).’ Say: ‘All things are from Allah.’ So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?”
Qur’an 4:88 “What is the matter with you that you are divided about the Hypocrites? Allah has cast them back (causing their disbelief). Would you guide those whom Allah has thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah has thrown aside and led astray, never shall they find the Way.” Qur’an 4:89 “They wish that you would reject Faith, as they have, and thus be on the same footing: Do not be friends with them until they leave their homes in Allah’s Cause. But [and this is a hell of a but…] if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”
Qur’an 4:97 “Verily, when angels take the souls of those who die wronging themselves (by staying home), they say: ‘In what (plight or engagement) were you?’ They reply: ‘Weak on the earth.’ Such men will find their abode in Hell, an evil resort!”
and also Qur’an 4:97 “Verily, when angels take the souls of those who die wronging themselves (by staying home), they say: ‘In what (plight or engagement) were you?’ They reply: ‘Weak on the earth.’ Such men will find their abode in Hell, an evil resort!”
Many more verses are there.

In Christ,
selvaraj
[/quote]

Selveraj these verses are speaking about hypocrites who left the Muslim army in times of war. It is not permissible for them to be sitting home while the Muslims are in danger. Any soldier who deserts his army has a very sever punishment in every country, including the United states. Please stop taking verses out of context.


#8

My friend,
Each sucide bombers claim this a Holy war according to Qura`n. Last week your terrorists attempted a sucide attack in Indian temple and even though they were not Indian Muslims. Why these are happening?

In Christ,
selvaraj


#9

[quote=selvaraj]My friend,
Each sucide bombers claim this a Holy war according to Qura`n. Last week your terrorists attempted a sucide attack in Indian temple and even though they were not Indian Muslims. Why these are happening?

In Christ,
selvaraj
[/quote]

First of all they are NOT MY terrorists. Do I call priests who molest little boys yours? I also don’t blame Christianity for the deeds of everyone who wears a cross on their neck. I can tell the difference between peoples actions and the teachings of a religion, please try to do the same. Let me ask you a sincere question, are you asking me to learn? It seems like your questions are more like accusations. I condemn it myself and I show Islamic scholars and organizations that condemn these actions and you still try to prove that they are part of Islam. Please have an open mind.


#10

If I might offer an observation…

At least for me, Emad was very direct in his replies. Some of the questions here strike me as harrassment of the fellow. I know you think that the Muslim definition of “innocent” is different than ours. But for now, take his answers at face value. The fact that many condemnations have been issued is a huge, huge improvement. Rejoice in that and build on it.

Jim


#11

Emad, you seem to be a rational person. I have a few questions to ask of you.

I know that Muslims believe that Jesus was a great prophet, and that it is good to follow his (His) words. I also know that Jesus preached a message of peace.

I also know that the Koran was written in a time of great conflict, and reflects that.

Are these problems due to a loss of respect for Jesus’ teachings, and an overemphasis on Mohammed’s teachings? Might a general anti-Christian attitude have contributed to this drift away from respect of Jesus as a prophet?

This is my theory about the development of present-day Islamic terrorism. Could you present a theory that is more comprehensive, from the inside-- and do those theories also suggest any solutions to the problem?


#12

Emad,

I appreciate your rational and civil approach. I confess that most Muslim I’ve encountered are reasonable and loving people. I confess that most love Jesus, not as Savior but as, in their words, “Lord”.

How do you explain the difference between so many Muslims we see on Arabic Television and American Muslims and most Sufis around the world? Will the American version, in your opinion, become the standard form or are we doomed to endless struggle?

I have no intention of converting. So, must I constantly be weary of attack my Muslims?

Dan L


#13

Emad,

I’m grateful for your reasoned approach. Most Muslims I’ve known personally are equally reasonable. However, this is not the case with Muslims on Arabic TV who see the world in terms of dar al Harb and dar al Islam. Since this distinction is part of the Qur’an and Sunna do you think the American version and the Sufi version of Islam will prevail or must non-Muslims forever have to watch their backs for the next attack?

Dan L


#14

[quote=LtTony]If I might offer an observation…

At least for me, Emad was very direct in his replies. Some of the questions here strike me as harrassment of the fellow. I know you think that the Muslim definition of “innocent” is different than ours. But for now, take his answers at face value. The fact that many condemnations have been issued is a huge, huge improvement. Rejoice in that and build on it.

Jim
[/quote]

Yes, Emad is direct. Emad and I also disagreed strongly on the issue of bombing of Coalition Forces in Iraq a few weeks ago. I just wanted to be certain I understood him correctly.


#15

[quote=iamrefreshed]Hi Emad,

Can you tell me what is meant by this statement from your post?

“As Muslims we condemn the killing of innocent people for any reason.”

What does “innocent” mean?

Shouldn’t it be “anyone”?
[/quote]

Is there a reason for your nit-picky-ness? I got what Emad was saying. I would have said it the same way regarding Catholics. Would you have asked me then what I meant by innocent???


#16

[quote=Donna P]Is there a reason for your nit-picky-ness? I got what Emad was saying. I would have said it the same way regarding Catholics. Would you have asked me then what I meant by innocent???
[/quote]

Yes Donna P. there is. You can read the above post or read through “Fatwa’s, by whose authority”?

Emad and I had a discussion about “innocents” and who was or wasn’t then. I wanted complete clarity from him here. It’s hardly nit-picky when I considered our previous discussion.

If you noticed, once he cleared it up for me I made no further comment.

And no I would not have asked you to clear it up if it were Catholic because I am Catholic and understand.


#17

Hello all, thank you for your kind words. I have been having trouble accessing the forum for sometime. I am not sure why. I really wish I had time to answer all of the questions below. However I will list two verses in the Quran that tell a Muslim which disbeliever to take as an enemy and which disbeliever he can be kind to.

They are 060.008
Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
060.009
Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.


#18

Emad,

But couldn’t these verse be used by the bomber in justifying their actions (not that I think they are just) by saying the England’s and America’s involvement in Iraq is driving Muslims out of their homes?
AntonV


#19

Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.

Emad, thank you for that. :smiley: Sometimes it gets difficult.:banghead:


#20

[quote=AntonV]Emad,

But couldn’t these verse be used by the bomber in justifying their actions (not that I think they are just) by saying the England’s and America’s involvement in Iraq is driving Muslims out of their homes?
AntonV
[/quote]

No it can’t because the people they killed are civilians and have nothing to do with the war in Iraq. They are civilians who might have been against the war themselves. In Islam it is forbidden to kill civilians, harm animals, or burn trees during war.


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