Wicca, the rest of the story


#1

Wicca is a topic that comes up quite a bit on this forum but rarely is it’s historical connection to Freemasonic ritual, Aleister Crowley and the OTO, the Golden Dawn, and many other anti-Christ influences mentioned.

It is interesting that the rhetoric of most Wiccans centers around a claim that Satan doesn’t exist. This claim looses credibility in light of the many oganizations and people with early ties to Wicca.


#2

[quote=St. James]Wicca is a topic that comes up quite a bit on this forum but rarely is it’s historical connection to Freemasonic ritual, Aleister Crowley and the OTO, the Golden Dawn, and many other anti-Christ influences mentioned.
[/quote]

Freemasonry is an anti-Christ influence? Maybe a few hundred years ago it was, but today I think of Freemasons as old guys who like to get together on Friday nights and have dinner, talk about sports and family etc…

To be totally honest, most freemasons are totally unaware of their organizations background. People join to network and be with their friends; it’s hardly the anti-Christ influence it once was, especially in the United States.

But to get back on topic, how are Wiccans and Masons related to each other? Perhaps if you are able to make a connection between the two you will be able to shed a new light on modern Freemasonry.

God Bless,

Stephen


#3

Gerald Gardner, the most influential figure in Wicca (arguably it’s founder) was a Freemason and like Joseph Smith, he originally incorporated masonic rituals into his new religion.

In time, use of the formal masonic rituals faded but the philosophy which the rituals represented stayed.

Gerald Gardner’s connection to Aleister Crowley and the OTO is documented here:

geraldgardner.com/index/charter.shtml

%between%


#4

[quote=Stephen Mills]Freemasonry is an anti-Christ influence? Maybe a few hundred years ago it was, but today I think of Freemasons as old guys who like to get together on Friday nights and have dinner, talk about sports and family etc…

[/quote]

They must be pleased that their PR is achieving it’s desired effect.

Masonry has not changed it’s philosophy as far as I am aware. It will change it’s PR to suit the time and place.


#5

[quote=St. James]They must be pleased that their PR is achieving it’s desired effect.

Masonry has not changed it’s philosophy as far as I am aware. It will change it’s PR to suit the time and place.
[/quote]

What exactly is the philosophy of freemasonry? I’ve heard that masons are anti-catholic, but I have a few family members that are confirmed, practicing Catholics (whether or not they are good or bad Catholics is a different story)* and *freemasons. They don’t seem all that terrible to me. I certainly don’t approve of their secrecy, but they do a lot of great charity work. Countless children have been given free medical care at Shriners’ Hospitals.


#6

[quote=Stephen Mills]What exactly is the philosophy of freemasonry? I’ve heard that masons are anti-catholic, but I have a few family members that are confirmed, practicing Catholics (whether or not they are good or bad Catholics is a different story)* and *freemasons. They don’t seem all that terrible to me. I certainly don’t approve of their secrecy, but they do a lot of great charity work. Countless children have been given free medical care at Shriners’ Hospitals.
[/quote]

I will gladly address these questions if you start another thread for them.


#7

[quote=St. James]I will gladly address these questions if you start another thread for them.
[/quote]

I’ve started a new thread in this forum (non-catholic religions) for you to comment on. I’d appreciate your insight.

-Stephen


#8

Hey, Stephen Mills are you a mason?


#9

[quote=St. James]Wicca is a topic that comes up quite a bit on this forum but rarely is it’s historical connection to Freemasonic ritual, Aleister Crowley and the OTO, the Golden Dawn, and many other anti-Christ influences mentioned.

It is interesting that the rhetoric of most Wiccans centers around a claim that Satan doesn’t exist. This claim looses credibility in light of the many oganizations and people with early ties to Wicca.
[/quote]

Aleister Crowley was a member of an irregular (a ‘renegade’) Mexican lodge. See the following link:

freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry03.html#mason.

I will have to review the other link you provide but if it’s identical to the link on another thread–whatever gestures Crowley is making, they are NOT any Masonic gestures with which I am familiar. Most assuredly, the photo displaying Crowley with his arms formed into an “X” is not the sign employed by a Freemason to signify “on the level”. I will review the thread and comment later if appropriate.

EDIT: I was mistaken. The link in this thread goes to a page on Gerald Gardner. I will research this and get back to you.


#10

Please do.


#11

[quote=St. James]Wicca is a topic that comes up quite a bit on this forum but rarely is it’s historical connection to Freemasonic ritual, Aleister Crowley and the OTO, the Golden Dawn, and many other anti-Christ influences mentioned.

It is interesting that the rhetoric of most Wiccans centers around a claim that Satan doesn’t exist. This claim looses credibility in light of the many oganizations and people with early ties to Wicca.
[/quote]

I practiced Wicca for a short time 15 years ago. I was apprenticed by a witch for about a year.

Wicca is a neo pagan religion. It claims to be a continuation of the original religion. The archetype of religion. It views the cycles of nature and the powers behind them as the fundamental forces that they they claim to define most accurately in that they attach those definitions to their original meanings. The winter cycle is characterized as death and personified by the male god refered to as ‘old horny’ . Spring is characterized by rebirth and personified as a female god who is mother to all creatures. There is no evil or good therefore no God or Satan. They claim that Satan is a christian attempt to degrade their god of death ‘old horny’.

Wicca and Satanism have similarities that are understood when one realizes that the modern version of Satanism has little or nothing to do with the christian personification of evil. Satanism today is the belief that the desires christians call vise are the means to human fulfillment. Wiccan views make one predisposed to follow suit. Although Wicca for the most part hold to the rule that to cause harm to others hinders spiritual growth in all involved, this offers little to inhibit allowing the fomes free liscense and a shift to neo-satanism…


#12

Benadam, I appreciate your experience and I agree 100% with what you say. However, your approach is from a Christian perspective which most Wiccans refuse to engage.

I believe that the association of characters in the history of Wicca gives Wiccans a lot less leeway in their claims as to the nonexistence of Satan.

Some Wiccans see the futility in denying the facts of the history of their religion and are beginning to acknowledge these things in their writing.

Personally I believe that the nonexistence of Satan claim is what makes Wicca most dangerous. As you mention, this can make Wicca a “gateway” religion for the squeamish into more diabolical practice. The history of Wicca contradicts the lite, feminine, natural front that it sports today. I believe people should be made aware of that history.


#13

[quote=St. James]Benadam, I appreciate your experience and I agree 100% with what you say. However, your approach is from a Christian perspective which most Wiccans refuse to engage.

I believe that the association of characters in the history of Wicca gives Wiccans a lot less leeway in their claims as to the nonexistence of Satan.

Some Wiccans see the futility in denying the facts of the history of their religion and are beginning to acknowledge these things in their writing.

Personally I believe that the nonexistence of Satan claim is what makes Wicca most dangerous. As you mention, this can make Wicca a “gateway” religion for the squeamish into more diabolical practice. The history of Wicca contradicts the lite, feminine, natural front that it sports today. I believe people should be made aware of that history.
[/quote]

I’m not sure what you mean when you say ‘association of characters’ I’m wondering if you mean their association of characters could be a demonic contrivance in response to christianity instead of their claim of the reverse. Since the antiquity of Wicca is non existent and their resources to touch on antiquity for a foundation for their system can only reach back to the middle ages. Which of course would mean that the image of a sincere search for truth that characterizes ancient peoples, is delusional image that the underlying demonic element would be using as a cover.
There is no doubt in my mind that it’s practices feed on the very fears that accompany the sting of death. Just look at the requirements to produce a spell, want, desire, need, which are not universally defined realities but are universal realities meant to be met by God and answered through Christ. Ever notice how these three universals are met by witchcraft? It answers by enabling them rather than resolving them because it attempts to manipulate and control exterior circumstances rather than meeting the problem with a conversion of heart.

well I could go on and on about such things, thank you for stimulating my mind on the subject.


#14

[quote=St. James]Wicca is a topic that comes up quite a bit on this forum but rarely is it’s historical connection to Freemasonic ritual, Aleister Crowley and the OTO, the Golden Dawn,
[/quote]

This is no new thing, not to any educated Wiccan anyway. Newcomers and fluffbunnies ignore or downplay all that history, but they’re not the representatitves of mainstream thought.

and many other anti-Christ influences mentioned.

None of those you mentioned are anti-Christ, at any rate not intentionally. But I presume you view anything outside the four walls of your catechism as anti-Christian, so I cannot help you there.

It is interesting that the rhetoric of most Wiccans centers around a claim that Satan doesn’t exist.

This isn’t a central aspect of Wicca, we’ve got better things to do than worry about the existence of Satan. Thing is, a lot of Wiccans have been handed to legal action by Christians under charges of Satanism (like children taken from their Wiccan parents), so we are forced to emphasise it.

This claim looses credibility in light of the many oganizations and people with early ties to Wicca.

It doesn’t. Whether you believe in him or not, Satan doesn’t exist.


#15

[quote=Heathen Dawn]None of those you mentioned are anti-Christ, at any rate not intentionally. But I presume you view anything outside the four walls of your catechism as anti-Christian, so I cannot help you there.

[/quote]

“I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men. Curse them! Curse them! Curse them! With my Hawk’s head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross… I spit on your crapulous creeds. Let Mary inviolate be torn upon wheels: for her sake let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!” (The Book of the Law 3:49-55, Aleister Crowley)


#16

[quote=Heathen Dawn]This is no new thing, not to any educated Wiccan anyway. Newcomers and fluffbunnies ignore or downplay all that history, but they’re not the representatitves of mainstream thought.

How do educated Wiccans view these historical connections?

None of those you mentioned are anti-Christ,
Dawn, if you believe that lets look together sincerely with a mirror.

at any rate not intentionally.
what do you believe are the hidden intentions?

But I presume you view anything outside the four walls of your catechism as anti-Christian,
what is it that defines Christ for you?

so I cannot help you there.
I appreciate the intention, thank you.

This isn’t a central aspect of Wicca, we’ve got better things to do than worry about the existence of Satan.
what is the central purpose of practicing Wicca?

Thing is, a lot of Wiccans have been handed to legal action by Christians under charges of Satanism (like children taken from their Wiccan parents), so we are forced to emphasise it.

That is awefull, it is a natural inclination for parents to love children I hope prejudice of religious practices didn’t overshadow parental love in those cases.

so we are forced to emphasise it.

if these families have been wronged by Christians then you should not emphasize it but use the concept, whether you believe it true or false, it is the Christian mirror.

. Whether you believe in him or not, Satan doesn’t exist.

you say that because you see no evidence he exists, you teach what you don’t know. consider this, your vision would have to encompass all of reality for that to be said and it not betray you.

we are not betrayed because what we see we can claim to believe is evidence of him.

I’ve read part of your homepage, you seem kewl to me. :slight_smile:

[/quote]


#17

St. James,

I have read the Masonic handbook of Rituals. I did not see the word “JESUS” in that book. I ask you if Masons actually ever use the Name of Jesus inside their Masonic Halls?


#18

Dear Catholics,

I don’t know about Crowley (he was probably more of a self-worshipper than anything else), but Wicca, and paganism in general, need not be anti-Christian, however many reservations neopagans may have against Christianity. See, for example, this article, by a Christopagan named Shadwynn:

The Christ and the Craft


#19

Dawn: Given that Caesar destroyed the druidical priesthood at Anglesey; given that St. Patrick took care of the druidical priesthood in Ireland; given that the Anglo-Saxons converted; given that the Norse converted…and so on and so forth…do you have evidence of a continuous existing pagan religion in Western Civilization? As an anthropologist I would be most interested to be able to follow this religion through western history.


#20

Dear friends

As a Catholic I see myself as a created creature and as such part of all creation, though as a human creature I have an immortal spirit. If I am part of creation and as a human I am capable of committing acts of good or acts of evil, how then does wicca reconcile that with their theory that there is no such thing as good or evil?

Thank you for your attention

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.