Will Islam fill the void left by the decline in believing Christians?

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2042169/Bishop-Michael-Nazir-Ali-Radical-Islam-is-filling-void-left-by-collapse-of-Christianity-in-UK.html

Point is that religion, like nature, abhors a vacuum. As Christianity recedes in the developed world–including the United States–will Islam take its place? One wonders if 100 years from now, Islam will be the dominant faith in the United States as well as Europe. Scary thought. :imsorry:

Islam seems like it’s too tied to culture to really take over for Christianity. One of the great things about Christianity is that it is universal, it can incorporate itself into any culture. I’m not sure that can be said about Islam (I’m open to correction here since I’m not an expert by any means).

Secular Humanism is more likely to fill that void than another religion (with a healthy dose of “spiritual but not religious”).

Yes, but Secular Humanism is not a real faith, it’s just atheism with a spiritual veneer. And Islam has historically done fairly well in different cultures; southeastern Europe (Bosnia, Albania/Kosovo), Turkish Thrace and Asia (Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia). Point is that societies that lack a strong Christian tradition are easily overrun by Islam.

Yes islam would rise and eventually sharia law would legally be the law of the land even supported by the constitution. Oh I don’t want that to happen but the way the US is with political correctness hamstringing christianity that leaves secular humanism which as a form of atheism alone and wouldn’t be able to stand up a against the rise of islamic aggression. Christianity would survive as it has elsewhere but with a lot of persecution. Our numbers would drop first through ignorance then through fear. After all just look at the ignorance on display over two religious freedom laws which is being overblown by the media. One minority group with the financial and political control of the media is spreading lies about both bills and CEOs and politicians are eating it up. The ways the laws are written simply allows businesses to not get sued if they stand by their religious beliefs. The lgbt community is insisting that’s discrimination and they wouldn’t do that. Yet in New Mexico that’s what happened to either a photographer or cake baker I don’t remember which. The lgbt couple sued the business for standing for its religious principles. These two laws are designed to protect the business owners. The media never gets its facts straight.

The same relativism and decadence that has caused the wekakeing and collapse of Christianity in the Wetsern world will also rot Islam to the core (if it should ever become more palatable outisde of it’s core cultures).

At work, I’ve met quite a few Moslems, and the more educated and caught up in the modern mixed culture world they become, the less Moslem they become. Most practice a bland benign theism.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I can assure you that the void will be filled by the Baha’i religion

The masses are becoming more and more disillusioned by Islam, it is no longer the religion adapted for today’s world.

God bless you

Lol.

I think the answer is - yes.

Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali is totally wrong. Christians in the developed world are not leaving the faith to find something even more conservative like Islam, they are just becoming more secular and less religious (and just ‘spiritual’).

Only a small minority is looking for something more strict or radical - they are the only one who may find Islam attractive and they are the ones who make the news.

The real test of both Christianity and Islam will come when the Christ returns (pretty soon - a couple of years). Then the choice for many will be between their old dogmas and the new revelations of the Christ - if that will create a new religion or just a reformed Christianity is the question.

I am not too sure about that though I would agree insofar that it (Islam) is tied to culture. When we speak about being tied to culture, so too was Christianity, not a Christianity culture but more of the culture of the Christians, for example, Europeans. This is one reason why we were not very successful in spreading the faith to the Asians (Chinese, Japanese and to some extent, Indians) when the initial missionaries went to these places. Christianity was perceived too much of an European culture rather than a religion to be accepted by the natives of these part of the world. Catholics realized this mistake of course and later tried enculturation of the faith to adapt to local culture. This too sometimes could run into the extreme that in some cases the faith can be somewhat paganistic.

Muslims would claim that Islam is a universal religion, yet its Arabianization is plain to see in most tenets of its practice. It is easy to see that to become a Muslim, would be to some extent, to accede to the Arabic language and culture.

I would see Islam tends to be political, nearly fascistic, that it won’t last in the long run as any government will fall eventually. Yes, there are some who find Islam intriguing and may see it as some kind of an alternative to the much watered down Christianity today that they may be sufficiently attracted to convert to it. But once the novelty wears down, what is left would be the harsh reality of a seventh century religion. And the only way to keep the flock would be a governance decree to prevent apostasy.

God bless.

Reuben

Another thing is that Islam isn’t just an alternative to Christianity. It is also an alternative to quasi-religions like Marxism, nationalism or secular humanism. These have been filling the Christian vacuum practically since the reformation.

Muslims would claim that Islam is a universal religion, yet its Arabianization is plain to see in most tenets of its practice. It is easy to see that to become a Muslim, would be to some extent, to accede to the Arabic language and culture.

The Arabic language is for obvious reasons (the Koran) a big part of the religion. But what do you mean by Arab culture? I don’t think that anyone who becomes a muslim is expected to wear middle-eastern clothes and watch Egyptian soap operas for the rest of their lives.

I would see Islam tends to be political, nearly fascistic, that it won’t last in the long run as any government will fall eventually. Yes, there are some who find Islam intriguing and may see it as some kind of an alternative to the much watered down Christianity today that they may be sufficiently attracted to convert to it. But once the novelty wears down, what is left would be the harsh reality of a seventh century religion. And the only way to keep the flock would be a governance decree to prevent apostasy.

God bless.

Reuben

The Iranian government has not failed so far. It seems to be democracy which is in peril.
And the reason we are having this conversation is that if we give people the right to choose, as we do in Europe, America and a few other places, people gradually but overwhelmingly reject Christianity. Doesn’t that imply that without a fascistic government Christianity itself can’t survive?

I am reminded of those statues of Our Blessed Lady, with the her feet crushing the Dragon/Serpent, and also the Crescent Moon - ‘coincidentally?’ the symbol of Islam.

I am reminded of the Qur’an itself expressing that ‘Allah’ is the greatest/best of deceivers. That the ‘Best/Greatest of Deceivers’ is also an accolade reserved by Christianity for Satan - my mind then flicks back to those depictions of Our Lady with the Dragon/Serpent and the Crescent Moon {symbol of the pagan Hubal, as well of Islam], under her feet. I am also reminded of Jesus’ promise that even in our darkest of hours He will not abandon ‘us’. I am additionally reminded that even when there is only a handful of ‘us’, that He too is present.

I also think on the many prophesies and descriptions of what may loosely be called ‘the end times’, and of what is going on even now, and feel a mixture of alarm for humanity, but also feel that Satan’s time is drawing to its climactic ending. I also feel that Satan himself knows that his time is coming towards a close.

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host,
by the Divine Power of God,
cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

She isn’t crushing the moon. She has the moon at Her feet, is crowned with stars and is clothed with the sun. It is a poetic description, where these elements add to her glory.

My old pastor, who died in 1992, was a rather prophetic soul.

He thought that Russia would recover her Orthodox roots (already happening), having sufficient resources and military power to resist forced Islamisation; Europe would go Moslem in a crisis eg. oil embargo, but the Europeans wouldn’t take it very seriously - it would be a political move; Britain would recover her Catholic tradition, having North Sea oil and nuclear weapons which she’ll use if necessary; and the Vatican would be forced to move, probably to South America.

There’s a couple of other things I could say, but I’ll leave them go for the moment.

He said these things circa 1990/91, since he died in January 1992.

He was right about a second Gulf War for example, saying “I think there’ll be a Second Gulf War. The Americans will have had enough of Saddam Hussein, and they’ll get rid of him. But I think they’ll lose a** few **men the next time.” The way he said “few”, it was clear he meant more than a “few”. As we all know, total coalition casualties in the first Gulf War were about 400, and a number of those were from “friendly fire” Not the second time around - it was a lot more than a “few”, nearly 5000, the great bulk of which were American.

He would have made that comment not long after the first Gulf War ended, since he died not long afterwards. He also was accurate in predicting some other personal items - one of his sons having a major health breakdown (stroke - 1996 or 1997); my sister “not living long” (leukemia, aged 45, 2005), losing the job I had at that time, saying “I think there’ll be a bit of a conspiracy against you and you’ll lose your job” (1995); the takeover and wrecking of his church by another pastor after he’d gone (correct to the letter immediately after he died - the pastor took over the same day and wrecked it in a few months); and a peculiar prediction about my doing some cleaning, not doing it for long and not liking it much, and hearing about a “ghost”. That happened in 2006, and even involved an Australian priest whom I happened to “chance” upon via this forum.

He also predicted I’d become Catholic, and that happened in 1996 or 1997.

Anyway time will tell about Islam and his prediction about Europe. His prognosis for Australia wasn’t good either. Disastrous actually.

CS Lewis gave a general warning of the decline of Western (“Christian”) civilisation in his essay “The Right to Happiness”. While the essay was mainly about the results of infidelity, he broadened the warning in his last paragraph.

“Secondly, though the ‘right to happiness’ is chiefly claimed for the sexual impulse, it seems to me impossible that the matter should stay there. The fatal principle, once allowed in that department, must sooner or later seep through our whole lives. We thus advance towards a state of society in which not only each man but every impulse in each man claims carte blanche. And then, though our technological skill may help us survive a little longer, our civilization will have died at heart, and will - one dare not even add ‘unfortunately’ - be swept away.”

It seems to me that God is judging our civilisation with a harsher one. Will we survive the challenge?

We are in the middle of the destruction of the old heaven and the old earth, while concurrently a new heaven and a new earth is being unfurled in its stead.

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I think the old heaven and earth were destroyed already, and we are already living in the new world. It’s just that we mostly haven’t realized it yet. But people are catching on!

From the Baha’i writings,as you know, but many others may not, “Heaven” signifies our ideals and religion from God, while “Earth” signifies human beings and our society, laws, and understandings.

Here is my own personal interpretation of the difference between the old and the new Heaven and Earth.

The old “Heaven” is the idea that everyone must believe the same way, that there is one truth, my group holds it, and everyone else needs to believe like I do - or else!

The new “Heaven” is words like: “Prefer all religionists before yourselves”, “'If two souls quarrel and contend about a question of the divine questions, differing and disputing, both are wrong” and “The fact that we imagine ourselves to be right and everybody else wrong is the greatest of all obstacles in the path towards unity, and unity is necessary if we would reach truth, for truth is one.” That is, all human beings, every one of us, must learn to honor and value those of different beliefs rather than “bite the finger” at them and view them as infidels.

The old “Earth” is theocracy, imposed beliefs by birth, and a religious monoculture. The new “Earth” is freedom of conscience, religion by choice, and a pluralistic religious society where people are free to find God in their own way, rather than blind imitation of their fathers beliefs by coercion.

This is my understanding of the teachings of Baha’u’llah. I believe we all know that we are in a new world now, some rage against that (such as the “Christian Identity” movement and ISIS), but most of us know that we cannot go back to the kind of society we were 500 years ago. We have to make our way forward, and learn how to to live in a world of so much more diversity and differentiation than ever before.

God has poured out His knowledge upon all the world, the mountains and oceans that once separated us have been flattened and dried up through modern communications, ocean ships and the airplane. We have been brought together as one world, it is a fact, and nothing can change that. We just need to understand now and to follow the most important Divine Teaching for this day, which is this:

“Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch.”

Many religious people “have considered the world of humanity as two trees: one divine and merciful, the other satanic; they themselves the branches, leaves and fruit of the divine tree and all others who differ from them in belief the product of the tree which is satanic. Therefore, sedition and warfare, bloodshed and strife have been continuous among them.” This approach is no longer sanctioned by God.

God is calling His Message to all the people of the Earth, no matter their beliefs, no matter their religion. Stop looking at the splinter in the eye of another. Stop reviling others and their beliefs, anathematizing them, claiming they are misled or even followers of Satan. The Holy Spirit is inspiring people from every philosophy and religion to recognize this truth. Catholics like Pope Francis. Shia Muslims like Ayatollah Tehrani ( news.bahai.org/story/992 ). The people who put together this website: judaism-islam.com/ . People all around the world, working to build bridges instead of burning them. These are people doing God’s work!

“Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” Hallelujah!

This is a beautiful exploration of Baha’u’llah’s Revelation Matthew

Thankyou :slight_smile:

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