Will only Catholics be risen on Christ second coming?


#1

Now I am having much trouble learning about the Second Coming. There is the "Rapture" but I understand that it is a 19th century protestant Idea by a Irish minister.

I understand the Catholic take on the "rapture" but there are these verses that Protestants use against this, and I am completely blind because I do not know how to refute these. And I did start a thread, but these verses protestants use were not discussed.

ANYWAYS, back to the topic. Well, in the second coming, if Catholics agree upon it, John 6:53 says.
[BIBLEDRB]John 6:54/BIBLEDRB : John 6:53:
New International Version (©1984)
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day

Only people who have eaten of his body and blood shall be risen on the last day. Protestants do not eat of his body or drink of his blood. So they wan't be risen?

Thank you.


#2

[quote="JD27076, post:1, topic:276287"]

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day

Only people who have eaten of his body and blood shall be risen on the last day. Protestants do not eat of his body or drink of his blood. So they wan't be risen?

[/quote]

Where are you getting this word, "only?" Jesus did not say "only." Also, we know that even people who do eat/drink will not be saved (they will fall into mortal sin).

There are several things that Jesus tells us to do in order to be saved (such as be Baptized). But the Church does not interpret these commandments to exclude salvation from those who do not participate. These are the ordinary means of salvation, but there is also extraordinary (ie, not ordinary) means - which would include teachings such as invincible ignorance and Baptism of desire.

Most aspects of Church ministry have ordinary and extraordinary dimensions. For example, in Magesterial teaching, the ordinary teacher is the Pope, and the extraordinary teacher is an Ecumenical Council. For Confirmation, the ordinary minister is a Bishop, but a priest may act as an extraordinary minister.

Baptism and Eucharist are the ordinary means of salvation, but extraordinary means are also possible. But in every case the ordinary means is preferred - that's how God set it up.


#3

The best book I have found on the subject is "Will Catholics be left behind?" by Carl Olson

amazon.com/Catholics-Behind-Modern-Apologetics-Library/dp/0898709504


#4

I’m quite sure the CC doesn’t believe in the Rapture, and no not only Catholics can be saved, any Christian who has faith and belief in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and lives according to his teachings and maintains a relationship with him can be saved.:slight_smile:


#5

[quote="DavidFilmer, post:2, topic:276287"]

Where are you getting this word, "only?" Jesus did not say "only." Also, we know that even people who do eat/drink will not be saved (they will fall into mortal sin).

There are several things that Jesus tells us to do in order to be saved (such as be Baptized). But the Church does not interpret these commandments to exclude salvation from those who do not participate. These are the ordinary means of salvation, but there is also extraordinary (ie, not ordinary) means - which would include teachings such as invincible ignorance and Baptism of desire.

Most aspects of Church ministry have ordinary and extraordinary dimensions. For example, in Magesterial teaching, the ordinary teacher is the Pope, and the extraordinary teacher is an Ecumenical Council. For Confirmation, the ordinary minister is a Bishop, but a priest may act as an extraordinary minister.

Baptism and Eucharist are the ordinary means of salvation, but extraordinary means are also possible. But in every case the ordinary means is preferred - that's how God set it up.

[/quote]

:thumbsup: Beautifully stated !!!


#6

[quote="Luvtosew, post:4, topic:276287"]
I'm quite sure the CC doesn't believe in the Rapture, and no not only Catholics can be saved, any Christian who has faith and belief in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and lives according to his teachings and maintains a relationship with him can be saved.:)

[/quote]

If one was to truly live as Christ desires for us to live, one would be Catholic and would be a Saint. May God grant us the grace to do so.


#7

[quote="JD27076, post:1, topic:276287"]
Now I am having much trouble learning about the Second Coming. There is the "Rapture" but I understand that it is a 19th century protestant Idea by a Irish minister.
Not an Irish minister's idea a Scottish girl's.

[/quote]


#8

This is a very sensitive subject. If I were asked who goes to heaven according to the bible I'd have to avoid the answer, as I think Jesus would like me to. Because to make that call, a call of who will be judged worthy is a dangerous call to make. Who are we after all to know the mind of God. We can, otherwise know his will. And His will was for his apostles to start a church built around St Peter as the settler of disputes. So if someone asks who gets into heaven at the second coming, tell them if they want to, start with the Church.
God bless and good luck answering tough question.


#9

[quote="Luvtosew, post:4, topic:276287"]
I'm quite sure the CC doesn't believe in the Rapture, and no not only Catholics can be saved, any Christian who has faith and belief in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and lives according to his teachings and maintains a relationship with him can be saved.:)

[/quote]

"Can be" is certainly key here. I am a convert from a family of baptists, and if any of them are saved, it will most certainly not be because of their faith in the baptist "religion", but in spite of it.


#10

Why do you say that, just curious. How does your family feel when you say that.


#11

[quote="JD27076, post:1, topic:276287"]

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and** I** will raise him up at the last day

[/quote]

It could be an indication that Jesus will personally raise those who eat his flesh and drink his blood.

Others will simply "rise" (Isaiah 26:19).


#12

[quote="Thomas_Francis, post:6, topic:276287"]
If one was to truly live as Christ desires for us to live, one would be Catholic and would be a Saint. May God grant us the grace to do so.

[/quote]

That is a quite ridiculous statement to be honest. How anyone can assume that if we are living as Christ wanted we would be Catholic is beyond me. If we lived the way Jesus wanted us to then we would be in the Garden of Eden, not in an organization that moves pedophiles from parish to parish and covers up child sexual abuse by the clergy.

That last part will make some mad, but that's ok. The truth hurts sometimes. All denominations have been struck with clergy sexual misconduct...all of them, but not all of them actively covered it up.

How did we cover it up you might ask....a report titled, "The Problem of Sexual Molestation by Roman Catholic Clergy:Meeting the Problem in a Comprehensive and Responsible Manner," was submitted to the bishops conference in 1985 by Father Tom Doyle (Vatican Embassy, 1981-1986) where he addressed these issues and the report was rejected by the bishops. The list of examples goes on and on.

So let me get this straight...if I wanted to be a true follower of Christ I would be in that organization?


#13

[quote="RevG, post:12, topic:276287"]
That is a quite ridiculous statement to be honest. How anyone can assume that if we are living as Christ wanted we would be Catholic is beyond me. If we lived the way Jesus wanted us to then we would be in the Garden of Eden, not in an organization that moves pedophiles from parish to parish and covers up child sexual abuse by the clergy.

That last part will make some mad, but that's ok. The truth hurts sometimes. All denominations have been struck with clergy sexual misconduct...all of them, but not all of them actively covered it up.

How did we cover it up you might ask....a report titled, "The Problem of Sexual Molestation by Roman Catholic Clergy:Meeting the Problem in a Comprehensive and Responsible Manner," was submitted to the bishops conference in 1985 by Father Tom Doyle (Vatican Embassy, 1981-1986) where he addressed these issues and the report was rejected by the bishops. The list of examples goes on and on.

So let me get this straight...if I wanted to be a true follower of Christ I would be in that organization?

[/quote]

The bottom line is is that the Catholic Church is the truth, and some people will just not accept that, and some people will take a very long time to accept that fact.

Christ would not leave us alone without some earthly guide. That guide is the Catholic Church. Not the Methodist church, not the Southern Baptist church, not the Presbyterian church, but the Catholic Church.

What are we supposed to do? Go searching through break-offs? How can you be so sure that the Southern Baptist religion is the truth when it was founded in the mid-1800's - nearly 2000 years after Christ left this earth?

Anyways, just like there are evil people in every institution, there are evil people in Christ's Church. There are evil people everywhere, and just because evil things have gone on in the Church's name, doesn't mean the Catholic Church is evil.


#14

[quote="RevG, post:12, topic:276287"]
That is a quite ridiculous statement to be honest. How anyone can assume that if we are living as Christ wanted we would be Catholic is beyond me. If we lived the way Jesus wanted us to then we would be in the Garden of Eden, not in an organization that moves pedophiles from parish to parish and covers up child sexual abuse by the clergy.

That last part will make some mad, but that's ok. The truth hurts sometimes. All denominations have been struck with clergy sexual misconduct...all of them, but not all of them actively covered it up.

How did we cover it up you might ask....a report titled, "The Problem of Sexual Molestation by Roman Catholic Clergy:Meeting the Problem in a Comprehensive and Responsible Manner," was submitted to the bishops conference in 1985 by Father Tom Doyle (Vatican Embassy, 1981-1986) where he addressed these issues and the report was rejected by the bishops. The list of examples goes on and on.

So let me get this straight...if I wanted to be a true follower of Christ I would be in that organization?

[/quote]

Wait are you actually claiming that the true Church is one that is free of scandal? The same Church which had Judas who betrayed Christ, Peter who denied Christ, and the other 9 who deserted Christ during His passion. Oh and let’s not forget Saul aka Paul who was responsible for persecuting the early Church which resulted in the death of Saint Stephen.

Sorry Rev but it looks like the Church Christ founded in the Bible is going to always be attacked by scandal but I'm sure you off all people would agree that their actions didn’t void the truthfulness of the Gospels and the Epistles they wrote. :thumbsup:

In fact the Bible is proof that infallible doctrine can come from not so impeccable people.


#15

[quote="Bob_Ross, post:14, topic:276287"]
Wait are you actually claiming that the true Church is one that is free of scandal? The same Church which had Judas who betrayed Christ, Peter who denied Christ, and the other 9 who deserted Christ during His passion. Oh and let’s not forget Saul aka Paul who was responsible for persecuting the early Church which resulted in the death of Saint Stephen.

Sorry Rev but it looks like the Church Christ founded in the Bible is going to always be attacked by scandal but I'm sure you off all people would agree that their actions didn’t void the truthfulness of the Gospels and the Epistles they wrote. :thumbsup:

In fact the Bible is proof that infallible doctrine can come from not so impeccable people.

[/quote]

This is true the church was founded with the early leaders being less than stellar examples, but where does Scripture tell us that when they messed up the church hid the actions of its leaders and moved them to another area? Oh wait, that's the Catholic Church again, not the early founders.

And since you mention it, the church that Christ founded was founded with Himself s the cornerstone and foundation, Him, Jesus, not Peter. The true Church is the one that has Jesus as its foundation, the one with Jesus as the cornerstone, the one that worship and adores only Jesus, not lifting others into His place. I don't care what the sign out front says, Baptist, Methodist, or Catholic. There are people in each that follow Jesus and who will make it to heaven, and then there are also those in everyone of them that will bust Hell wide open!


#16

[quote="CatholicZ09, post:13, topic:276287"]
The bottom line is is that the Catholic Church is the truth, and some people will just not accept that, and some people will take a very long time to accept that fact.

Christ would not leave us alone without some earthly guide. That guide is the Catholic Church. Not the Methodist church, not the Southern Baptist church, not the Presbyterian church, but the Catholic Church.

What are we supposed to do? Go searching through break-offs? How can you be so sure that the Southern Baptist religion is the truth when it was founded in the mid-1800's - nearly 2000 years after Christ left this earth?

Anyways, just like there are evil people in every institution, there are evil people in Christ's Church. There are evil people everywhere, and just because evil things have gone on in the Church's name, doesn't mean the Catholic Church is evil.

[/quote]

Jesus did not leave us alone He left the church. The Roman Catholic Church was not there and neither were any of the other denominations....oooh I called Catholicism a denomination. The Baptists were not founded in the mid 1800s. The Baptists can be dated to at least the 1600's with the Anabaptists. But they were not founded then, in fact they are part of the group that separated from....that's right...the Catholic Church because of a little group known as the reformers. You might have heard of them. Maybe you should read why they a called reformers and not separatists. You might study a little church history before you start tossing out facts that are misguided.

Yes there are evil people in every organization but most churches do not foster the environment of evil by allowing the evil to continue unchecked and unpunished. Most do not try to protect their image by settling out of court and having people sign confidentiality clauses so they cannot warn others.


#17

[quote="RevG, post:16, topic:276287"]
You might study a little church history before you start tossing out facts that are misguided.

[/quote]

Misguided? Hardly. I said that the Southern Baptist Convention was founded in the mid-1800's; I didn't breach any other Baptist denomination.

And, if I may, you might want to study a little church history too and see which Church is that of the apostles, and it's definitely not the Southern Baptist.


#18

Since this thread has been so drastically derailed, I’ll make 3 points.

First, with regard to ongoing clergy sexual abuses by Baptist ministers in particular.* StopBaptistPredators*.org

And then the fact that Sex abuse spans spectrum of churches


And third, from my own research and blog, What Was Authentic Early Christian Worship Really Like?


#19

[LEFT]Having totally departed from its topic this thread is now closed.
[/LEFT]


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