Will our theory of morality destroy us?

"Poor Jesus – he didn’t even own a smart phone. But we modern Christians, thanks to many centuries of experience and to the vast intelligence we have acquired by being modern men and women, now at last realize that love-thy-neighbor means we have to tolerate, and even be supportive of, practices like fornication, unmarried cohabitation, abortion, homosexual sodomy, same-sex marriage, and suicide for terminally ill persons. "

Will our theory of morality destroy us?

thecatholicthing.org/2016/10/07/will-our-theory-of-morality-destroy-us/

I believe this will destroy us:

“The Tolerance Principle, according to which we are obliged to tolerate the behavior of others, provided it does no harm to non-consenting others.”(from the article linked-bolding mine)

I see a day when in this country there will be legal punishments for praying at abortion clinics, refusing as Christian Clergy to marry two homosexual persons, actually speaking out against assisted suicide as well as the other instances the article notes; polygamous marriages etc.

I would like to think the pendulum would swing back toward Christian conservative morality. I have read our youth today are more pro life than the youth before them. I try to hold out hope but I see the slippery slope sliding downward at this point in time when I see the push for assisted suicide.

An article to ponder upon; thanks for posting the link.

Mary.

Not destroy us, but I have a feeling it will get worse before it gets better.

Will not destroy ‘them’ - nor ‘us’; but will destroy ‘their’ power.

paduard

No morality alone won’t but all of the following will !

7 Deadly Sins List:
Envy = the desire to have an item or experience that someone else possesses
Gluttony = excessive ongoing consumption of food or drink
Greed or Avarice = an excessive pursuit of material possessions
Lust = an uncontrollable passion or longing, especially for sexual desires
Pride = excessive view of one’s self without regard to others.
Sloth = excessive laziness or the failure to act and utilize one’s talents
Wrath = uncontrollable feelings of anger and hate towards another person

The author explicitly says that:

I don’t mean to say that Moral Liberalism will actually lead to these forms of conduct.

So what is the point? Simple fear mongering?

Of all the different “objections”, the only one which holds a little water is the reference to abortion. But even that is irrelevant if it happens in the early stages of development, when there is no brain yet and consequently no pleasure-pain center. So morning-after pills cannot be “badmouthed” on moral ground. Not even the Catholic Church can agree upon the moment of “ensoulment”. There is no soul-o-meter which would separate the “ensouled” beings from the other ones. And when the church is silent, everyone can follow their own conscience.

As for the rest of the objections, they are no one else’s business. But if God takes exceptions to those hypothetical practices, he can show his displeasure, if he wants to. Since there is no such sign, we can be certain that he does not “really” care. :slight_smile:

Contrary to the author’s assertion, Christianity in America is alive and well. There is a sign that the most conservative branches are shrinking, but the others happily worship God and Jesus.

Vera_Ljuba

Bishop Fulton Sheen would disagree:

remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2012-1130-fulton-sheen-Plea-For-Intolerance.htm

Ed

Charity, then, must be shown to persons and particularly those outside the fold, who by charity must be led back, that there may be one fold and one Shepherd. Shall God, Who refuses to look with an equally tolerant eye on all religions, be denied the name of “Wisdom” and be called an “Intolerant” God? Bishop Fulton Sheen

Did we do this? I would argue we did not. It’s easy to say but **this is not what the Church did in Bishop Sheen’s time. **

What’s up with all the nuns in the 1950’s-60’s telling school children that they are going to hell for any little thing they do. I’ve heard more stories about people being put off of the Church by that than anything else.

Hi, Jim!
…where did you learn that Catholic Christians must be supportive of practices deemed immoral and an abomination?

Maran atha!

Angel

Hi, Vera!
…on abortion–though there are issues of dogma, the fact remains that from the very beginning the Church has decreed against abortion:

In spite of the difference in ecclesiastical penalties imposed during the period when the theory of delayed ensoulment was accepted as scientific truth,[37][38] abortion at any stage has always been condemned by the Church[39] and continues to be so.[40][41] However, in its official declarations, the Catholic Church avoids taking a position on the philosophical question of the moment when a human person begins to be: (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensoulment)

…and while it is true that there’s no dogma on the specific moment of ensoulment, the Church has held that it is at the moment of conception:

The view of early Christians on the moment of ensoulment is also said to have been not the Aristotelian, but the Pythagorean:

As early as the time of Tertullian in the third century, Christianity had absorbed the Pythagorean Greek view that the soul was infused at the moment of conception. Though this view was confirmed by St. Gregory of Nyssa a century later, it would not be long before it would be rejected in favour of the Septuagintal notion that only a formed fetus possessed a human soul. While Augustine speculated whether “animation” might be present prior to formation, he determined that abortion could only be defined as homicide once formation had occurred. Nevertheless, in common with all early Christian thought, Augustine condemned abortion from conception onward.[25]:40 (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensoulment)

…further, how long did it take Mary to reach her relative, Elizabeth? Both their children, in their respective wombs, reacted with infusion of a soul!

…as for your closing statement… Faith is indeed on the verge of extinction because, as you yourself have stated, Christians are following the wide road… how many generations before Christ becomes a hindrance to the “modern” belief system?

Maran atha!

Angel

Not really; there was the concept of “quickening” and the moment of “first breath”. But the point is that there is no epistemological method to ascertain if there is a “soul” or not. It is pure speculation. It is true that in the Biblical times there was no knowledge of physics (except a touch of mechanics), chemistry and biology, so the people had to resort to speculations. No one should “badmouth” them, of course. They did the best they could using the extremely limited level of knowledge they had. But today, after 2000+ years of accumulated knowledge one should study their writings for historical purposes only, not to glean insight into reality. The concept of soul as some “animating principle” has been discarded by the biologists a long time ago, and with good reason.

Those Christians are still Christians. Maybe they are not as judgmental and exclusionary as the “ultra-conservatives”, but that is something they are rightly commended for. Whether they are right or wrong can only be decided by God himself. Until he comes forward and gives a thumbs-up to one side the question remains open.

I think the OP is correct, if you look back in time, things that were once taboo, are not anymore, our definition of offensive, what is pornography, etc has all drastically changed over time, at one time it was very risky for women to show their ankles or wear skirts shorter than knee length, nowadays thats totally out the window, they market and sell extremely short skirts and other seductive clothing to even preteens, some of these things, many people dont see anything wrong with them, and people even joke about the times when women dressed modestly.

You have to wonder if this is the way it is right now in 2016, whats going to be considered risky or taboo 50 yrs from now…100 yrs? If we keep going down the same road, will it eventually be the norm for women to wear G strings and thongs in public?!! I also cringe at what will be considered ‘hard core’ in our future, doesnt seem like it can get much more hard core than it is right now!

I have always believed if you do things slowly and methodically over a long period of time, its much easier to ‘acclimate’ people to virtually any kind of immorality

I didn’t learn that at all. It is certainly to be hoped that Catholics and all Christians would not support immoral practices. No doubt Mr. Carlin, the article’s author, would agree. His thesis is that traditional Christian morality is being supplanted by a new secular morality consisting primarily of the “Personal Liberty Principle” and the “Tolerance Principle,” and that such a radical change in the moral basis of society can have dire consequences as a result of its own internal logic. Sadly, some Christians seem to accept those two principles at face value without considering how they undermine traditional Christian morality and divine law.

These are the seven deadly sins. They are a part of the structure of traditional moral code and the divine law. It is this moral code which is being undermined the by new secular moral code which seeks to replace it. (Nobody talks much about lust and sloth anymore, but greed seems to get a lot of attention.)

Just like any other product, evil is marketed, mostly by the media. This did not happen overnight.

amazon.com/Marketing-Evil-Pseudo-Experts-Corruption-Disguised/dp/1581824599

Ed

The poison was dripped into our veins slowly. It took years for the current version to reach its present state.

Hi, Vera!
I think we can agree that developmental sciences are just that–however, we are also delving in the spiritual (if one believes in the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit) and it is through this Revelation that man has acquired the knowledge of the universe that has allowed him to enhance his understanding in all aspects of his environment (inclusive of the sciences and theology). However, as you have ascertained, the finite cannot do justice to the infinite and so men of God would approach the unknown through their personal understanding (limited to their own capacities and the cultural development around them).

As for science, it will never know the intricacies of God since they cannot be quantify by its instruments (specially when the mind of man refuses to accept his limits vs. God’s infinity). Though I’ve only heard the term in passing (movies and the such), “the quickening” could be understood from Genesis’ description of God’s infusion of His Spirit in the vessel that would become man–I would even dare say that that’s the proof-text that ensoulment takes place at conception (again, this is not scientific proof).

Those Christians are still Christians. Maybe they are not as judgmental and exclusionary as the “ultra-conservatives”, but that is something they are rightly commended for. Whether they are right or wrong can only be decided by God himself. Until he comes forward and gives a thumbs-up to one side the question remains open.

…since I am operating in the dark (I don’t really know what your definition entails), I would only caution that Jesus did warn that not all who called Him Lord would enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; He also made a clear distinction between those who claimed Him as their Lords and those who actually Served Him as their Lord: ‘whenever you did this…’ so you see, knowing about Jesus, professing to belong to Jesus, preaching about Jesus, and even performing great feats in Jesus’ Name does not equate to belonging to Jesus Christ (as in being claimed by Christ).

So while staunch religiosity is not demonstrative of actual Faith and abiding in Christ, neither can it be said of a flexed religiosity that allows society to dictate the tenet of the faith.

Maran atha!

Angel

Hi, Mike!
…the worst is that “Christians” continue to buy in; society claimed that divorce was good, Christian obeyed society and rejected Jesus; society claimed that contraception was good, Christians contend that there’s no Biblical text that condemns it; society claimed that abortion was legal and a woman’s right, Christians are continuing to swallow the pill; society claimed that homosexuality was another version approved by God, Christians are making sure they are represented by homosexuals in their worship; society says that infanticide and euthanasia is good for society, Christians are shuffling about trying to accommodate society…

True, not all Christians are blinded by the bling and the glory… but it is getting harder and harder to distinguish between those who follow Christ and those who follow social conventions of Christ.

No wonder Jesus stated:

However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” (St. Luke 18:8b)

Maran atha!

Angel

I suppose, considering this society overdoes the vulgarity and violence on everything, is it no wonder so many are so neutral, unfeeling, and defensive of all of the bad. This rotten country can’t get enough sex, blood, demons, gore, and death. I see it everywhere, and find it absolutely disgusting, and can’t imagine how this garbage and the current crummy politically “correct” views could even appeal to anyone. I really just don’t understand any of it at all. As far as I’m concerned, our “theory of morality”? What morality.

Turn off your TV, choose movies that are in line with your values. TV is about ratings and advertising money. The greater the shock, the more people watch. Democracy and Freedoms is a two edge sword. Open your eyes to the positive things about our country. Enjoy Nature that God gave us. Enjoy the positive things that people do around us and don’t focus totally on the evil things. God greatest gift to us is Freedom of Choice. The choice to do go good or bad. He gave this gift also to his Angels and remember a number of them chose Evil led by Satan himself.
It took a near death experience for me to open my eyes on so many good things that God has given us.

 Praise God that you are okay and you now see the beauty in all that God has given us.  But there is much evil in this world, and we as Christians must continue to demonstrate and preach the good news of Jesus Christ to everyone who will listen.  Yes, appreciate and enjoy God's fruits but continue the fight against evil and never be fooled into believing all is peachy keen.  Until Jesus comes again, there's lots to be done.  Pray!!!
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