After this, will the Church of England die?
Hopefully it will! The Church of England is heretical and was inspired by the Devil- it is the underlying cause of all England’s misery and is the worst thing to happen in the history of this country. I despise the Church of England, not it’s people, but I despise the concept of the Anglican church and it’s liberal & heretical leadership.
No real surprise, is it? The CoE has from it’s very inception when it broke off from Catholicism been afflicted by a massive chink in the moral/theological armor when it comes to the conjugal meaning of marriage. Think about it:
The rupture came to be in the first place since Henry VIII wanted a divorce and the Church wouldn’t declare his old marriage null. His solution was to divorce England from the Church so that he could divorce his unwanted wife. Neat trick.
The Anglicans (CoE offspring) were the first to formally rationalize the use of contraception, further signifying a lack of understanding of the conjugal reality of marriage.
Androgynous priests. You can’t ordain women to the priesthood unless you first internalize the principle that there is no innate difference between man and woman that could make men eligible for priesthood and women not. Further evidence that they’ve never “gotten” marriage and the conjugal meaning of male and female.
Surrender on “Gay Marriage.” As if one could stop fighting a proposal to recognize “round squares.”
This didn’t come out of the blue. Hard cases have a long history of making for bad theology in Anglicanism. Sometimes past history IS a predictor of future performance. Don’t buy stock in Anglicanism.
(Apologies to individual Anglicans who take offense at the above. It’s a criticism of the megatrends of your community, which doesn’t mean it applies to all Anglicans individually).
Yet it’s a very mild “evil” in actual practice.
This article is old (5 June) and pre-dates the legislation that allows same-sex marriage in England and Wales. The legislation passed in both Houses of Parliament and under it, it remains illegal for the Church of England to conduct gay weddings. The article is poorly written but this is the CofE’s offical positon on gay marriage taken from its website:
As explained in the Church of England’s submission to the Government’s consultation in June 2012 (here: tinyurl.com/bsn6dxt ), the Canons of the Church of England define marriage, in accordance with Christ’s teaching and the doctrine of the Church, as being between a man and a woman. Because the Canon Law of the Church of England is also part of the public law of the land and cannot be in conflict with statute law, it is important that any legislation for same-sex marriage makes it clear that it does not apply to marriage according to the rites of the Church of England.
From what I have read so far…it is not that it is illegal…it is that any C of E church cannot be compelled to conduct a religious ceremony for a gay marriage…am I correct in this understanding?
No - you are not correct :
Because the Church of England and Wales have explicitly stated that they do not wish to conduct same-sex marriages the legislation explicitly states that it is illegal for the Churches of England and Wales to marry same-sex couples. This provision recognises and protects the unique and Established nature of these churches. The church’s canon law will also continue to ban the marriage of same-sex couples
Decree of nullity.
Are you correcting my terminology in point #1 or nullifying the validity of my entire post?
Responding in my usual knee-jerk fashion to “divorce”.
AMEN! And in addition to all this, I strongly oppose the very idea of a “national” church, and find it anathema to the very principles of Christianity. No true church would associate itself with a country as the Anglican church does. Did Jesus not die for all peoples?
I get it. And you’re probably right that that is the way a catholic should think and the way Hank thought (you’d know better than me). But when you reach the point that you’ve appealed all the way to the pope and still been told that the marriage was valid and make the decision to take over your entire national church and cause a schism to get the decree you want, you’ve pretty much defined the word “sophistry” in trying to make a distinction between ‘divorce’ and ‘decree of nullity.’
Thoughts on my assertion that the above 4 elements illustrate a persistent problem in Anglicanism regarding the conjugal meaning of marriage? Even when we disagree, I value your input.
I have high hopes for the Church in England, not to be confused with the Church of England :p. I believe as the Anglican leadership is unable to successfully weather the cultural pressure within the country, and compromises itself, more and more of those hungry for the truth will be drawn to Catholicism. This will spill over into Africa as well, as those in the Anglican communion are already becoming increasingly nervous and weary over what is happening. The collapse of the Episcopal Church here in the US is already well under way.
This is what happens when you don’t have a spine.
… and what would you like to see what would happen? that we all would become Catholic if it did die or the doors finally closed? How can you despise something you know very little about? I in return could say I despise the Catholic Church for the concept of it strict approach of faith and you gotta agree, though not the people itself because they human after all etc etc. Fine go ahead it a free world and you are at leisure to hate us, but make sure you do so of your own free mind, not because as Catholics you been taught to ‘hate us’ and Christianity isn’t about despising each other and the concept is no different to the people since the concept is from people. I don’t want you to ‘love me’ because am human and therefore may be misguided by the Church etc. If you hate the Church I Worship with then you hate me in all essence because God is a big part of my life, not just on a Sunday morning Eucharist or before Confession but every day in a realist human way and I don’t expect God to do things how I want Him to, I don’t ask Him for lots and lots and lots though I will admitt I ask my Priest to ask Him because I can’t but I know God don’t work like that in reality. Fine Hate the Anglican/Church of England but by hating the Church you are Hating US too as WE make the Church, people Make the Church and run it and yeh, we not perfect by any means but to hate us …
That’s too easy a shot. I’d say it’s what happens when you make theological and doctrinal decisions based on how people feel about things rather than what Scripture and Tradition examined in the light of reason (and THEN scrutinized with a pastoral eye) come up with. CoE doesn’t so much lack a spine as they lack a prioritization between how people feel and how an issue is treated in Revelation. Being nice has somehow come to mean more than being faithful. That’s a mistake in theology more than a lack of courage.
They represent a current problem in Anglicanism. In some places.
That was indeed how Hank thought; as did all. The idea of a divorce was unknown. Not that a marriage couldn’t be merely ignored, but a valid marriage could not be dissolved. Except by way of proving it an invalid marriage sacramentally. Hence the wide-spread net of possible impediments that were in play by Henry’s day. Henry played the game as it was meant to be played, with a causa as good as was generally used. But the whole system, being an intertwining of politics and theology (as was most things, in the day) responded by working as it was designed to do: consider the political impact as part of the decision.
So - decree of nullity.
Henry didn’t appeal to the Pope. Katherine did. As was her right.
I appreciate your appreciation, for true.
Historically, the C of E is a compromise between different factions within the reformation movement in England. So it is by nature a doctrinally amorphous creature.