WINE


#1

In our parish, one of the lay people mixes the wine so it’s color looks good ( a deep red ) in the crystal cups ( Yes I know about not using glass), The wine comes in one of those boxes. He mixes two different types together to get the color. Is this mixing ok ? Is wine in a box ok?


#2

Probablly not however there would be no need to engage in this action if the parish performed it liturgy correctly. One abuse begets the rationality of another.

God Bless


#3

If it is wine and is not fortified or mixed with any other liquid, what difference does it make that it came from a box? What kind of glass bottle did the wine used at the Last Supper come from?

Peace

Tim


#4

My guess is that the box wine is inappropriate. Odds are if they are using off the shelve box wine it has been mixed with preservatives and things not “of the fruit of the grape” Actually mixing different wines, as long as they are pure grape wine without preservatives wouldn’t be forbidden but isn’t necessary. The color of the wine doesn’t matter, you can use white wine, red wine or blush as long as it is “pure and incorrupt”

From Redemtionis Sacramentum:
“50. The wine that is used in the most sacred celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice must be natural, from the fruit of the grape, pure and incorrupt, not mixed with other substances.127

It is altogether forbidden to use wine of doubtful authenticity or provenance, for the Churchrequires certainty regarding the conditions necessary for the validity of the sacraments. Nor are other drinks of any kind to be admitted for any reason, as they do not constitute valid matter.”

“What kind of glass bottle did the wine used at the Last Supper come from?”

I doubt it had artificial perservatives, etc. The box itself wouldn’t make the wine illicit, but anything other then grapes added to it would.
.


#5

What makes you think that boxed wine has preservatives in it?

Peace

Tim


#6

The desire to stage the wine for viewing is the central problem.

God Bless


#7

As long as it meets the requirements specified as to Alcohol content, No additives of any kind are permitted also.
Usually the container is marked “Sacramental wine” stating the all the requirements are certified as being met.


#8

Most box wine these days (I’m not talking jug wine) is “from the fruit of the grape, pure and incorrupt, not mixed with other substances”. I’d wager that if Marauder’s quote from RS is the only stipulation on what type of wine is acceptable for the mass, then box wine would not only be acceptable but probably preferable for a smaller parish that doesn’t offer both species to the congregation – simply because box wine stays fresher longer.


#9

Box wine contains sulfites which are preservatives - it’s why I can’t drink it, it gives me headaches.

~Liza


#10

Please don’t push to hard the the “pure and uncorupt, not mixed with any other substance” too hard. All wines contain substances not found in grape juice. After all, we store the wine in wooden casks during fermentation; the wine in Jesus’ day was stored and fermented in skins and unglazed pottery. The juice leaches chemicals from the strorage vessel that become part of the natural flavor of the wine, without it the wine would taste “off”. All we’re looking for here is that nothing is added other than what is found in the normal process of winemaking.
As for “blending” wines, just on the natural level, that’s awful. Maybe the person was just finishing one container and starting another (I hope to God of the same type).
Matthew


#11

Please don’t push too hard the the “pure and uncorupt, not mixed with any other substance” too hard. All wines contain substances not found in grape juice. After all, we store the wine in wooden casks during fermentation; the wine in Jesus’ day was stored and fermented in skins and unglazed pottery. The juice leaches chemicals from the strorage vessel that become part of the natural flavor of the wine, without it the wine would taste “off”. All we’re looking for here is that nothing is added other than what is found in the normal process of winemaking.
As for “blending” wines, just on the natural level, that’s awful. Maybe the person was just finishing one container and starting another (I hope to God of the same type).
Matthew


#12

That may be true, but almost all wine has sulfites in it, box or bottle regardless. In fact, I haven’t seen a bottle of wine ever that didn’t say “contains sulfites”.

And I’m a wino, so I should know.

Perhaps church-sanctioned sacramental wine doesn’t contain sulfites(?).


#13

Organic wines do not contain sulfites. Check Whole Foods for these.

~Liza


#14

The key is has anything been ADDED to the grape juice during the winemaking process. Adding extra sugar, preservatives, non-grape fruits, flavorings, etc. would make the wine illicit. The only things that would be allowed in the wine would be those things that were there due to the natural winemaking process (i.e. if it was made in an oak cask vs. stainless steel, etc.)

Before a priest or person that prepares the wine before Mass just picks up a new type of wine from the store shelf and uses it and it hasn’t been certified as sacremental wine they should verify how it is made. If anything is added, it shouldn’t be used.


#15

The presence of sulfites in the wine is a natural result of fermentation. It must be removed if the wine is not going to have sulfites. Most of the boxed wine is perfectly acceptable for Mass since most of them are naturaly produced (and most come from California).

As far as blending them for appearance sake – why? Use red if you want the appearance of blood or white if you want to minimize the cleanup of a spill.

Deacon Ed


#16

It is interesting to note that sacramental wine is very unlike table wine in that it nearly always includes the addition of grape spirits or alcohol derived from grapes. Similar to the process for making sherry (also why the wine is often a brownish or brick color if red), the wine is fortified with the grape spirit which halts fermentation and leaves residual sweetness in the wine. This also allows the wine to stay “wine” for much much longer. If wine were made purely “organically” the bottle would last maybe 4 or 5 days after opening before turning to vinegar and no longer being acceptable matter.


#17

From HERE

Altar Wine

Wine is one of the two elements absolutely necessary for the sacrifice of the Eucharist. For valid and licit consecration vinum de vite, i.e. the pure juice of the grape naturally and properly fermented, is to be used. Wine made out of raisins, provided that from its colour and taste it may be judged to be pure, may be used (Collect. S. C. de Prop. Fide, n. 705). It may be white or red, weak or strong, sweet or dry. Since the validity of the Holy Sacrifice, and the lawfulness of its celebration, require absolutely genuine wine, it becomes the serious obligation of the celebrant to procure only pure wines. And since wines are frequently so adulterated as to escape minute chemical analysis, it may be taken for granted that the safest way of procuring pure wine is to buy it not at second hand, but directly from a manufacturer who understands and conscientiously respects the great responsibility involved in the celebration of the Holy Sacrifice. If the wine is changed into vinegar, or is become putrid or corrupted, if it was pressed from grapes that were not fully ripe, or if it is mixed with such a quantity of water that it can hardly be called wine, its use is forbidden (Missale Rom., De Defectibus, tit. iv, 1). If the wine begins to turn into vinegar, or to become putrid, or is the unfermented juice is pressed from the grape, it would be a grievous offence to use it, but it is considered valid matter (ibid., 2). To conserve weak and feeble wines, and in order to keep them from souring or spoiling during transportation, a small quantity of spirits of wine (grape brandy or alcohol) may be added, provided the following conditions are observed (1) The added spirit (alcohol) must have been distilled from the grape (ex genimime vitis); (2) the quantity of alcohol added, together with that which the wine contained naturally after fermentation, must not exceed eighteen per cent of the whole; (3) the addition must be made during the process of fermentation (S. Romana et Univ. Inquis., 5 August, 1896).

~Liza


#18

OT, that’s an excellent tip. Thanks!


#19

most wine sold at the store have preservatives in it, which is a no-no for liturgical use… these preservatives are called sulfates. Technically the wine should be specifically made and be noted as sacramental/liturgical wine.


#20

Never seen one that didn’t. The stuff used in my parish, unfortunately, also has “other fruit flavorings.” This also is common but not universal for boxed wines.

JSA


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