Wisdom question


#1

Wisdom 3:10-13, 16-19 and 4:1-6 has me seriously worried. My parents are married, but not religious in any way, and the whole ‘none of them will ever amount to anything’ thing throws up questions.

If these verses are taken as written, then how can there be any hope for me?


#2

good question. I will be staying tuned.


#3

David,

If you are feeling that there is no hope, put away those thoughts and turn to Psalms 86:15 “But thou, O Lord, art a God merciful and gracious, Slow to anger, and abundant in loving kindness and truth.” There is always hope. Also remember Mark 4:40 “And he said unto them, Why are ye fearful? Have ye not yet faith?” May God guide you and bless you!


#4

[quote="davidn87, post:1, topic:319177"]
Wisdom 3:10-13, 16-19 and 4:1-6 has me seriously worried. My parents are married, but not religious in any way, and the whole 'none of them will ever amount to anything' thing throws up questions.

If these verses are taken as written, then how can there be any hope for me?

[/quote]

Grace and Peace be with you David,

As any person, your parents go through up and downs throughout their lives. These verses speak in a way of contrasting the lifespan of a life compared to the rewards of the life to come.

If you see the preceding verses in Wisdom:

     *1*The souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, 
     and no torment shall touch them. 
     2*They seemed, in the view of the foolish, to be dead; 
     and their passing away was thought an affliction 
     3*and their going forth from us, utter destruction. 
     But they are in peace. 
     4*For if to others, indeed, they seem punished, 
     yet is their hope full of immortality; 
     5*Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, 
     because God tried them 
     and found them worthy of himself. 
     6*As gold in the furnace, he proved them, 
     and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself.*

New American Bible. 2011 (Revised Edition) (Wis 3:1–6).

St. Peter touches on this subject as well.

6*In this you rejoice, although now for a little while you may have to suffer through various trials, 7*so that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that is perishable even though tested by fire, may prove to be for praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
New American Bible. 2011 (Revised Edition) (1 Pe 1:6–7).

Don't ever lose hope David, and don't ever stop praying.

Keep in mind that: Just as the Faith of the parents bring Grace to the children, so does the Faith of a child bring Grace to the parents.

Have Faith and don't be shy to ask the Lord to increase your Faith, even the Apostles asked the Lord for this:

And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.” 6*The Lord replied, “If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you would say to [this] mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
New American Bible. 2011 (Revised Edition) (Lk 17:5–6).

God Bless you brother,

Jose


#5

Jesus is your hope. Jesus can break generational curses. Put your faith in him. If only people whose ancestors were believers could be saved then we would all be in trouble and only Jewish descendents of the first Christian Jews could be saved. Try to read the bible in context and compare it to other passages.


#6

[quote="davidn87, post:1, topic:319177"]
Wisdom 3:10-13, 16-19 and 4:1-6 has me seriously worried. My parents are married, but not religious in any way, and the whole 'none of them will ever amount to anything' thing throws up questions.

If these verses are taken as written, then how can there be any hope for me?

[/quote]

David you my friend can have hope. even in the quotes you give.

3; 10

But the wicked shall receive a punishment to match their thoughts.

since they neglected justice and forsook the lord.

11
For he who despises wisdom and instruction is doomed.

Firstly don't assume your parents are viewed as wicked. Do they neglect Justice? Jesus will judge them not us. You have not forsaken the Lord. You do not despise wisdom and instruction. You reading the bible and being here seeking instruction is PROOF of this.

In the new testament we have a better covenant with God than the old testament people had. I would reccomend you give the old testament a rest for a couple of years and focus on the new testament. The epistles, that is everything after the 4 gospels, are excellent for learning about the promises of Christ that apply to our lives in this current time. They apply to you, now. Keep reading them. The more you re-read them the more understanding you will be given. The word of God is living. I'm sure that the fact you are interested in this has caused great cheering and celebration by those watching you from heaven. The old saying Seek and you shall find is true. The more you get into the new testament, the more the fear and things troubling you in your life will fall off your shoulders. By reading and thinking about what you are reading you are seeking and God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit will draw closer and closer to you.

In the spiritual realm, reading the bible and thinking about what you're reading fills you with light. Any darkness trying to get to you will flee it has to. hang in there bro.


#7

[quote="davidn87, post:1, topic:319177"]
Wisdom 3:10-13, 16-19 and 4:1-6 has me seriously worried. My parents are married, but not religious in any way, and the whole 'none of them will ever amount to anything' thing throws up questions.

If these verses are taken as written, then how can there be any hope for me?

[/quote]

Your hope is the regeneration/rebirth you received in Baptism - when you were "born of the Spirit". You are now a child of God.

Just a few Scripture passages for you to ponder:

John 3:3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 3:4 Nicode'mus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is **born of the Spirit **is spirit. 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born anew.'

Titusw 3:5 he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, 3:6 which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 3:7 so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.

1 John 3:1 See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3:3 And every one who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.


#8

Are you serious?


#9

[quote="davidn87, post:8, topic:319177"]
Are you serious?

[/quote]

Deadly Serious, the OP clearly does not have a personal relationship with Jesus at the moment and needs to understand the Promises of Christ that apply to him, now. The new testament is where the greatest power lies. He needs to know what's there.


#10

So for the past 7 years I have been completely deluding myself, and nothing I did in that time has meant anything? Gee, thanks.

Who have I been praying to, worshiping, serving and hearing from all this time - the devil?


#11

And…

The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value, for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.


#12

The Old Testament must be interpreted through Jesus. We are part of the New Covenant as it was fulfilled by Jesus. If you are under the Old Covenant then you are under the Law given to Moses.

Aussie’s advice is very sound. By reading and learning the New Testament you will be able to see where the Old meets the New and how the Old points to Jesus.


#13

Can anyone answer this?


#14

Only you know the answer to that.

ETA: And if you don’t know and/or are confused, then you should meet with your Priest.

Peace.


#15

Well if I don’t believe that it’s been God talking to me, I might as well check myself in to a lunatic asylum!

Who else would tell me to pray for the salvation of others, to help people when I can?


#16

[quote="davidn87, post:15, topic:319177"]
Well if I don't believe that it's been God talking to me, I might as well check myself in to a lunatic asylum!

Who else would tell me to pray for the salvation of others, to help people when I can?

[/quote]

communication in forums can get difficult
from what I am reading of the posts, i don't see anyone suggesting that you've been deluding yourself or wasting your time
it seems to me that you are taking those readings in Wisdom out of context and that this is the source of your anxiety
as Catholics, we take the Bible as a whole and that is why a suggestion was made that you focus on the NT at this point - as you state yourself the essential message includes "pray(ing) for the salvation of others, (and) help(ing) people when I can"
sorry if this does not help you, I will pray that God help you with this


#17

David,

These verses must be understood in concordance with other scriptures of the OT, as well as the NT.

First, the OT. Ezechiel says:

But, in turn, if he begets a son who sees all the sins his father commits, yet fears and does not imitate him—
15
a son who does not eat on the mountains, or raise his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, or defile a neighbor’s wife;
16
who does not oppress anyone, or exact a pledge, or commit robbery; who gives his food to the hungry and clothes the naked;h
17
who refrains from evildoing, accepts no interest or usury, but keeps my ordinances and walks in my statutes—this one shall not die for the sins of his father. He shall surely live!

18
Only the father, since he committed extortion and robbed his brother, and did what was not good among his people—he will die because of his sin!

The question is, how can God do this and still be true to his previous statement in Wisdom.

For that we need to look to the NT.

The righteous man is one who follows God in faith. He is in essence a “Son of God”. Furthermore his elder brother, Jesus, has given His Life in atonement for the transgression which we may have been guilty of because of our parent’s evil. By baptism we have died into the life of Christ and now seen by the Father as sinless.

So the answer is that God gave the full answer to the problem of the father’s sin in Wisdom by the foreshadowing in Ezechiel of the Sacrifice of Christ.

Hope this helps

I’ll be praying for your parents.

peace
steve


#18

Dear David,

I am not telling you that you have done all the wrong things and are wasting your time. God loves you completely and has guided you along the path you have taken bringing you to where you are today.

From your initial post i recognise the fear you’ve been having and why it’s there. My recommendation to focus only on the New Testament for a time comes from experience. I’m not telling you you’ve done anything wrong, I’m here to tell you there’s more.
Heaps more and you are ready for it. As you study the new testament over and over you will each time be granted more and more understanding. The power of the words of the new testament exceed the old in my opinion.

When you apply each extra thing you learn to your daily life things begin to happen more rapidly. When you draw near to God he will draw near to you. I don’t mean you are not close already but there’s always degrees closer we can get. You will eventually find yourself so full of the Holy Spirit that you can feel it almost all the time and fear does not enter your life in any way or in any situation. The presence of God is with you and nothing is a problem to think about. This is when you should let the old testament back into your studies.

I know it works. You will get to know God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit more intimately than ever before.


#19

Thank you.


#20

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