Witchcraft


#1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Exorcist-Tells-His-Story/dp/0898707102 I have read the book (written by the former chief exorcist for the Vatican) in the above link. It is an excellent book and it has given me a ton of information. So I know a little on the subject! :) Anyway, I recently came across this:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8602

The bit that stuck out for me was:

"Witches do not believe in Satan.

If there is one belief common to witches everywhere, it is that they do not believe in Satan and that they do not practice Satanism. Witchcraft's apologists are quick to point this out.

Denise Zimmermann and her co-authors of The Complete Idiot's Guide to Wicca and Witchcraft emphasize, "Witches don't believe in Satan! . . . The all-evil Satan is a Christian concept that plays no part in the Wiccan religion . . . Witches do not believe that negativity or evil is an organized force . . . Neither do Wiccans believe there is a place (hell) where the damned or the evil languish and suffer" (13).

Christian apologists should acknowledge that witches do not consciously worship Satan and that they do not believe he exists. But this does not mean that Satan needs to be left entirely out of the conversation. A Christian apologist should point out that belief in someone does not determine that person's actual reality."

I've never realized this before! :confused: All I'm looking for is some confirmation that this is true (or false)...

Thanks!!
ClemtheCatholic


#2

Wicca is a 20th century invention.


#3

[quote="ClemtheCatholic, post:1, topic:309928"]
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Exorcist-Tells-His-Story/dp/0898707102 I have read the book (written by the former chief exorcist for the Vatican) in the above link. It is an excellent book and it has given me a ton of information. So I know a little on the subject! :) Anyway, I recently came across this:

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8602

The bit that stuck out for me was:

*"Witches do not believe in Satan.

If there is one belief common to witches everywhere, it is that they do not believe in Satan and that they do not practice Satanism. Witchcraft's apologists are quick to point this out.

Denise Zimmermann and her co-authors of The Complete Idiot's Guide to Wicca and Witchcraft emphasize, "Witches don't believe in Satan! . . . The all-evil Satan is a Christian concept that plays no part in the Wiccan religion . . . Witches do not believe that negativity or evil is an organized force . . . Neither do Wiccans believe there is a place (hell) where the damned or the evil languish and suffer" (13).

Christian apologists should acknowledge that witches do not consciously worship Satan and that they do not believe he exists. But this does not mean that Satan needs to be left entirely out of the conversation. A Christian apologist should point out that belief in someone does not determine that person's actual reality."*

I've never realized this before! :confused: All I'm looking for is some confirmation that this is true (or false)...

Thanks!!
ClemtheCatholic

[/quote]

It's true, Satan is a Christian concept. Witches worship a God and Goddess, and have no concept of an evil entity. In fact, being involved with demons or evil would violate their belief in the Wiccan Rede: 'An ye harm none, do as ye will.


#4

[quote="capablanca911, post:2, topic:309928"]
Wicca is a 20th century invention.

[/quote]

Indeed, and there are two forms of "Satanism" out there: the Satanists who are just nihilists; and those who actually, sincerely worship Satan, as in Satan the devil.


#5

Compare with devil worship of the 1700's:

esotericarchives.com/solomon/gv_bi.htm


#6

My daughter in law is wiccan,and i can tell you she may not worship satan but she is certainly influenced by evil spirits.

the spells and books they use are utilizing demonic forces of which they have no idea the true nature and power .

Most of their worship focuses on mother earth or the pagan diety Is***


#7

What she said is absolutely true, Witches (Wiccans and other self styled shamanistic pagans) due not believe in the existance of Satan (or any devil for that matter).

It would be funny if it weren't so sad. Most of them ascribe to the notion that there are two major gods (that go by various names, one is a feminine archetype associated with spring summer growth, healing, etc. the other is a masculine archetype associated with the more harsh aspects of reality. Oddly enough their male deity vaguely resembles the devil Put Satanachia (also called Baphomet the Sabath Goat).

What particulars they believe is moot. They are painfully delusional. Almost all "doctrine and beliefs" accepted by Wiccans was made up by a fellow named Gerald Gardner, he like many men found goofy religion as a great way to get sex from naive women. Much of the Wiccan symbolism has been stolen straight from Satanism but they "try" to distance themselves from Satanists so as not to appear to fraternize with evil.

Whether they like it or not Satan is their bedfellow.


#8

Oh a Gnostic popped up. Neat. Reminded me of the Gnostic Black Masses.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borborites

The section on Sexual Sacramentalism makes my point. Not safe for work, btw


#9

Witches and Satanists are two different things.

Witchcraft is a subset of paganism. All pagans are not witches, but all witches are pagans. Wicca is a recent term for witchcraft.

There are white and black spells, but no worship of Satan in witchcraft.


#10

Just to clarify, are all of these things very, very bad? Or are some no worse than any other non-Catholic religion?


#11

[quote="capablanca911, post:5, topic:309928"]
Compare with devil worship of the 1700's:

esotericarchives.com/solomon/gv_bi.htm

[/quote]

A "Christian" invention.


#12

[quote="ClemtheCatholic, post:10, topic:309928"]
Just to clarify, are all of these things very, very bad? Or are some no worse than any other non-Catholic religion?

[/quote]

Witchcraft is mentioned in the Bible as something we should NEVER do. It is NOT a religion. Satanism is "worshiping" Satan. Paganism is worshiping nature. Do not consider these religions.


#13

Devil with any other name than satan its stil satan.


#14

[quote="ClemtheCatholic, post:10, topic:309928"]
Just to clarify, are all of these things very, very bad? Or are some no worse than any other non-Catholic religion?

[/quote]

That's the 50 Million dollar question i've always wondered about you guys.

When you step away from the "ground level" of your faith and look at those who engage directly on behalf of the Roman Curia in Interfaith affairs, you don't really see the Vatican official walking up to say the Tibetan Buddhist lama and condemning his belief system as the falsehoods of demons or whatever language you use to convey that message.

But the laity and some of the priesthood engage in such polemics for those non-Christian traditions emanating out of the West.

So why do the Hindus, traditional Daoists, Buddhists, et al. "get a pass" while the Wiccans and other types from the West face outright condemnation?

"Get a Pass" = An acknowledgement of the positive aspects of their philosophy and faith, but still a firm belief in the completeness of the Christian message.

ie: "You _____ have got some good ideas, but they find their ultimate fulfillment only in Christ."

The approach is quite different when you compare it against what happens with Wiccan/NeoPagan encounter.

Heck, I've seen with my two eyes in places like China and Korea and India, cooperative measures taken by your Church and say traditional Buddhists.

Cooperative Measure =/= Syncretism, rather a healthy respect for each others traditions.

I've yet to see a single "interfaith" outreach between Christians and NeoPagans.


#15

[quote="ClemtheCatholic, post:10, topic:309928"]
Just to clarify, are all of these things very, very bad? Or are some no worse than any other non-Catholic religion?

[/quote]

On face value, false religions are all false. St Paul says that the false gods are demons. However, anyone that uses the occult is more highly susceptible to demonic oppression or possession.

Also, there is lucifarian (believes in Satan) witchcraft and there is non-lucifarian witchcraft. Most lucifarians will not admit their worship of Satan to the public.


#16

Yes, all of these things are bad because they essentially not only deny the divinity of Christ, they place their faith in demons rather than G*d.
At least Islam, being one of the Abrahamic religions, believes in the same G*d as Christians and Jews.
Hindus, being pagan, may worship many gods, but they do not, for the most part, worship demons!
Today, that leaves Wiccans, a modern neo-pagan re-creation of witchcraft, for those who are masters of self delusion.


#17

1 Corinthians 10:20 But the things which the heathens sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God. And I would not that you should be made partakers with devils.


#18

"I've yet to see a single "interfaith" outreach between Christians and NeoPagans"

IMHO the difference is that the Buddhists are fairly neutral in this war, whereas the Wiccans and Pagans are directly fraternizing with the enemy.

As a historical note, the Church had a very dim view of any non-Catholic credo in the not too distant past. I guess you could chalk up some of the modern tolerance to political correctness.


#19

[quote="ClemtheCatholic, post:1, topic:309928"]
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Exorcist-Tells-His-Story/dp/0898707102 I have read the book (written by the former chief exorcist for the Vatican) in the above link. It is an excellent book and it has given me a ton of information. So I know a little on the subject! :) Anyway, I recently came across this:

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8602

The bit that stuck out for me was:

*"Witches do not believe in Satan.

If there is one belief common to witches everywhere, it is that they do not believe in Satan and that they do not practice Satanism. Witchcraft's apologists are quick to point this out.

Denise Zimmermann and her co-authors of The Complete Idiot's Guide to Wicca and Witchcraft emphasize, "Witches don't believe in Satan! . . . The all-evil Satan is a Christian concept that plays no part in the Wiccan religion . . . Witches do not believe that negativity or evil is an organized force . . . Neither do Wiccans believe there is a place (hell) where the damned or the evil languish and suffer" (13).

Christian apologists should acknowledge that witches do not consciously worship Satan and that they do not believe he exists. But this does not mean that Satan needs to be left entirely out of the conversation. A Christian apologist should point out that belief in someone does not determine that person's actual reality."*

I've never realized this before! :confused: All I'm looking for is some confirmation that this is true (or false)...

Thanks!!
ClemtheCatholic

[/quote]

I can unfortunately confirm for you that it is very true. Wiccans and witchcraft practitioners, by and large, do not believe in an entity called Satan. But, also unfortunately, what they don't know CAN harm them, and everyone close to them. Even a lot of Satanists do not actually believe in Satan. I know WAY too much about this for my own comfort. Mea culpa...:(


#20

[quote="George_Stegmeir, post:16, topic:309928"]
Yes, all of these things are bad because they essentially not only deny the divinity of Christ, they place their faith in demons rather than G*d.
At least Islam, being one of the Abrahamic religions, believes in the same G*d as Christians and Jews.
Hindus, being pagan, may worship many gods, but they do not, for the most part, worship demons!
Today, that leaves Wiccans, a modern neo-pagan re-creation of witchcraft, for those who are masters of self delusion.

[/quote]

Wicca for the most part has cast aside it early history based on the writings of Murray. Much of the witch lore has been passed down in stories and books.

Today they see themselves as a "recronstruction" of the Old Pagan Religions. They do not claim to be an unbroken continuation of the Old Religion, but a "rediscovery" of it with it's own mythology being used by the practitioner to seek union with the Eternal. The God's and Goddesses of nature being called upon again....and just as the Christians understanding of God has increased...we know so much more in Revelation than we did when we started in Genesis...so too has the modern Neo-Pagan movement sought to "reconstruct" a modern version, drawing upon the old myths and folk tales to fill out their pantheon.

The God and Goddess is no more "demonic" than are the Hindu Gods....they are Pagan expressions of the Eternal drawn from their own observance of Nature.....and how Nature was seen by the Old Pagan. It's eclectic, as it is know there was never any one Pagan religion....similarities between the various Pagan groups is interested....male and female dieties which reflect the ebb and flow of the natural world and in mythic terms tells the seasons of the year.


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