Women deacon?


#1

Hi everyone I just had a quick question about a weird experience I had at mass this Sunday. I live in the Netherlands so this might just be a European thing I’m not sure. Usually we have the same priest every Sunday but this Sunday we had a different priest an he had a sort of deacon with him a woman. I thought it was weird because she started up the mass with the sign of the cross and did a few readings then blessed people after mass and she was dressed like a priest. Is there such things as women deacons? can they lead mass and bless people and such? I’ve only ever heard of male ones, is this a new thing?


#2

nef, there is no such thing as a woman deacon. This is definitely something you need to report to your bishop. It sounds like some people were taking advantage of your priest’s absence.


#3

In the Roman Catholic Church there are no women deacons, now. In our past, not only were there women deacons, but women priests and bishops. This was early on in our history. Many men were fighting in wars, I guess, faithful to emperors, or running farms and estates. Women, with far less status were easier to convert and get the attention of. As the Church grew, especially when the Church received prominence as the faith of the Roman Empire, it received the attention of men. Through the leadership of the Holy Spirit it has been decided that such roles as deacon, priest, bishop, echo those of the apostles. I guess from a social point of view it was beneficial to point out to men that women, who were valued a little more than chattel, were not allowed in these roles.

But there is hope. Our faith is always evolving before us. One day, the Holy Spirit may lead us to see that women can fulfill such roles as did Mary of Magdala. It may take an even greater shortage of priests in the Church than what we suffer with now.

THrough great misery God brings about great good.:slight_smile:


#4

this is not true and there is not a shred of evidence to support this contention


#5

Are you sure you were in a Catholic Church?


#6

Are you crazy? Haven’t you heard what John Paul II said in 1994? He said, NO WOMEN PRIESTS!!! What part of that don’t you understand?

There were NO WOMEN PRIESTS OR BISHOPS in the early ages of the Church! There were ‘deaconesses’, but they only prepared female converts for baptism.

And St. Mary Magdalen was NOT A PRIEST, either…

Oy…I’m trying to be charitable here…


#7

Pretty darn sure I was. I’ve been attending for a couple of months.


#8

Women “deacons” were not ordained; they assisted in catechizing women and were present when women were baptized on Holy Saturday Night (Remember, Baptisms in the Early Church was done in the nude.)

Also the wives of Deacons, Presbyters (Priests), and Bishops were referred to by their husband’s title, so the wife of a bishop or episkopos would be an episcopa.

But there is hope. Our faith is always evolving before us. One day, the Holy Spirit may lead us to see that women can fulfill such roles as did Mary of Magdala. It may take an even greater shortage of priests in the Church than what we suffer with now.

Our Faith was given once and for all to us through the Self-Revelation of Jesus Christ. The hope is that one day all will respond in faith to the teaching of Christ through His Church. Further, our faith and hope are not based on the wishful thinking of those beguiled by heterodoxy.

THrough great misery God brings about great good

.

True, but the Church faithfully teaching that only males may be ordained is hardly a great misery - though I’m sure it makes some folks miserable. And as Deal Hudson wrote regarding the shortage of priests:

There are actually plenty of vocations today in faithful dioceses: Denver, Northern Virginia, and Lincoln, Nebraska, have great numbers of men entering the priesthood. If other dioceses, such as Milwaukee, want to answer the question of why they have so few vocations, the answer is simple: Challenge young men to a religious life that is demanding, countercultural, sacrificial, and loyal to the Holy Father and Catholic teaching. This is the surest way to guarantee a greater number of vocations.

And to the questions raised by the OP, what he witnessed must be reported to his bishop.


#9

Jesus Christ is the Head of the Catholic Church. Pope John Paul II was a servant of the servants of the Church. Our Church is led by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. And therefore, it is not implausible, that one day, even women could be priests.

 I heard that the Office of Inquisition was closed.  Was that possibly because the Holy Spirit inspired us to believe that conversion by the rack wasn't Christian anymore?

  I heard that Galileo's excommunication was also revoked.  Any comments?

#10

Then if this was in a Catholic Church, I would definitely report it to the bishop.


#11

The Holy Spirit preserves the Holy Father from teaching error, not by leading him to follow whatever heterodox opinion might float through his or anyone else’s mind. The matter of the male-only priesthood is an infallible teaching and can NOT be changed. It’s time for you to accept this with Catholic Faith.


#12

You’re making a lot of assumptions, but they’re not based on theology.

During the Mass, the priest is Christ in persona. Christ was male and therefore it would be impossible for a female to take this position.

For this reason, the Church has never ordained women, and never will, because she can’t change what Christ is, a male.

Jim


#13

Neither of these issues has anything to do with a change in the Faith of the Church; the matter of the male-only priesthood, however, is a matter of Catholic Faith (what is to believed as coming from Christ’s Self-Revelation) and thus cannot be changed.


#14

I don’t believe that the Immaculate Conception was fully accepted by the Church until the 19th Century. Good Catholics did not read the Bible and Mass could only be said in Latin.

  Of course, basic tenets of our faith remain.  The Passion, The Trinity

   But the paths to fulfilling God's Will evolve as led by the Holy Spirit.  You are aware that Marriage was not always considered a sacrament.  Suddenly, it was one.

    Most mind-boggling of all: "There is salvation outside the Church." (Sounds almost, ecumenical).

    So the actual question is:  If tomorrow the Holy Spirit led his servant of servants in the area of faith and morals to ordain women, would you run to Switzerland and start a JPII Movement or would you follow the lead of the Holy Spirit?

#15

michael quinlan;

    So the actual question is:  If tomorrow the Holy Spirit led his servant of servants in the area of faith and morals to ordain women, would you run to Switzerland and start a JPII Movement or would you follow the lead of the Holy Spirit?

Well, I doubt you’ll ever see this happen.

For one, we don’t see or hear of people praying to the Holy Spirit, for women’s ordination. All we see are the protest and complaints.

Second, we can’t change who Christ is. The priest is Christ in persona, on the altar, and Christ is a male.

Pope John Paul II stated that it is impossible for the Church to change the theology and therefore can not open the priesthood to woman.

Jim


#16

Never say never.

Remember God loves to bring the lofty low and raise up those bowed down. True, Christ in persona on the altar is a human, but then again male and female are made in God’s image.

I'm not saying that this is happening tomorrow, but prepare yourself for the wonder of God.  He loves to test us as to what lengths we trust Him and love others.

 God love Pope John Paul II.  At his moment in human history, the Holy Spirit led him to announce that.  Pope John Paul is now gone.  Be prepared.  Your faith may be tested in ways you might never imagined.

  One thing is for sure.  God loves us all and wants us to love Him and others.  THIS is infallible.:)

#17

michael quinlan;

Never say never.

Its not my call, so I’ll never say never on this issue.

Remember God loves to bring the lofty low and raise up those bowed down.

The problem is, there is little humility expressed by those calling for women’s ordination, but rather, arrogance and lust for power.

True, Christ in persona on the altar is a human, but then again male and female are made in God’s image.

But Christ is a male, and it is Christ who is on the altar via the priest.

I'm not saying that this is happening tomorrow, but prepare yourself for the wonder of God.  He loves to test us as to what lengths we trust Him and love others.

I believe we’ll see the 2nd coming of Christ before we see the ordination of women.

God love Pope John Paul II. At his moment in human history, the Holy Spirit led him to announce that. Pope John Paul is now gone. Be prepared. Your faith may be tested in ways you might never imagined.

The theology he based his teaching on, can not change, as he himself stated.

One thing is for sure. God loves us all and wants us to love Him and others. THIS is infallible.

Correct, and it is because of our love for God, that we are called to align ourselves with His will, not our own.

If God wants women to become priest, it will happen. If not, His will be done.

Jim


#18

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

To Jim’s post.

I love this talk on why women not only shouldn’t, but can’t be priests:

Women and the Priesthood — Why “only boys can be the daddies”


#19

Michael,

I’d just like to say that regaurding the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception of Our Lady, that these were beliefs in the Church from the very beginning. It was only after people started doubting these facts and teaching wrongly about them that they were pronounced as infallible doctrine from the chair of St. Peter.

Pat


#20

You are referring I take it to the declaration by the Pope. To say that it wasn’t fully accepted until then would be incorrect. The Church usually does not make a declaration until a question of doubt is raised.

Good Catholics did not read the Bible

I have no idea what you base this on but as far as I know reading the bible was encouraged. How much the Bible was read depended on the time period. For example, was it before the printing press when few bibles existed were very expensive and people were generally illiterate?

and Mass could only be said in Latin.

I don’t understand the point of this statement.

Of course, basic tenets of our faith remain. The Passion, The Trinity

Again I don’t understand your point.

But the paths to fulfilling God’s Will evolve as led by the Holy Spirit. You are aware that Marriage was not always considered a sacrament. Suddenly, it was one.

I need a source not just a statement.

Most mind-boggling of all: “There is salvation outside the Church.” (Sounds almost, ecumenical).

The Church has always taught and still teaches that there is no salvation outside of the Church. See 836-848 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

So the actual question is: If tomorrow the Holy Spirit led his servant of servants in the area of faith and morals to ordain women, would you run to Switzerland and start a JPII Movement or would you follow the lead of the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit had already spoken. Are you listening?


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