Women In the Priesthood


#1

As the title obviously suggests, I would like to talk about the ordination of women as priests in the Church. I can see the points of both sides of this issue and, as a result, have yet to take a firm stance on the it. Traditionalists say that since all of Jesus’ apostles were men, so should be today’s apostles. Feminists argue that Jesus’ message screamed for equality. I just thought it would be interesting to get some healthy discussion going on about this, so have at it.


#2

Gender Roles, Male Priests, Equality, and Feminism

ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ116.HTM

I can’t say it better than Dave Armstrong


#3

Has the Church made an infallible pronouncement on this?

I do know the Holy Father has addressed this question and declared that women won’t be ordained so I am not sure it would be a good idea to re-open the question.


#4

I would imagine that there would be serious ontological problems were women to become priests.

I believe one of the biggest problems lies with the whole concept of Christ and His Church. Christ is the Bridegroom, and his Church is portrayed as being the Bride of Christ. As you know, the priest, in the mass and at the altar, represents Christ. Were a female to become a priest, the powerful image of Christ being the bridegroom being united with his Church would be significantly clouded. In other words, Scripture and the Tradition of the Church employ profound images that themselves make use of the sexuality between a man and a woman.

I hope that makes some sense to you. I myself don’t fully understand the argument; but I have come across it a number of times, and it seems a fairly good reason why women can never become priests.

I personally believe, for theological reasons, that women should not become priests. I have read, however, that some women in the early Christian times were deacons. I haven’t looked into it, however. In all, I would imagine that we will see female deacons than female priests in the near future.


#5

[quote=Juxtaposer]Feminists argue that Jesus’ message screamed for equality.
[/quote]

Actually, what some feminists scream for isn’t equality. It is “identical-ness”. Men and women are equal. What we are not is the same.

– Mark L. Chance.


#6

Holy Orders is a sacrament and to make a sacrament valid you need the correct matter. You can’t consecrate cookies and kool-aid for Holy Communion, you need unlevened bread. You need the laying on of hands for Confirmation, not a song and dance. For marriage, it takes a man and a woman, not a man and a man or a woman and woman.

Since Christ is the Bridegroom to His Church and a priest represents Christ, you need a man for Holy Orders. No woman can be a groom.


#7

THE CHURCH HAS NO POWER TO CHANGE THIS RULE OF FAITH, AS THE CHURCH IS SUBORDINATE TO CHRIST (EPH. 5:24). YOU SHOULD TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE REASONS ONLY MEN CAN BE PRIESTS AND TAKE A STANCE WITH THE RIGHT SIDE. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE.


#8

not in our life times my friends, not in our life times…


#9

I have read, however, that some women in the early Christian times were deacons.

Its my understanding that the “deacons in the early Church” were not deacons in the modern sense. They were not ordained, but were used to when dealing with intiating women into the church. I’ve read somewhere that the early church at some point baptised people in the nude which raised propriety issues with females entering the church. Thus, the need for female deacons.

During the 1980s when I was in high school in upstate New York my Dad co-taught RCIA. Unfortunately, my Dad’s teaching partner for RCIA was a lady that had studied philosophy and was quite admant about becoming a Priest. She was only waiting for right Pope to come along. I guess she’s still waiting…


#10

The day that the Catholic Church allows women to be ordained to the Priesthood will be the day that will begin the downfall of Holy Mother Church.

There are enough Liberals in positions of authority to push for many other so-called liberating but scandalous changes. The Anglicans experimented with Gay Bishops and it looks like they will have a schism. If women are ordained then what will follow?

The Nuns started wearing civilian clothes and now a number of them are almost anti Rome. To relent and go one more step backward will surely bring about a diluted and ineffective Church. Holy Mother Church knows best!


#11

[quote=Exporter]The day that the Catholic Church allows women to be ordained to the Priesthood will be the day that will begin the downfall of Holy Mother Church.

There are enough Liberals in positions of authority to push for many other so-called liberating but scandalous changes. The Anglicans experimented with Gay Bishops aand it looks like they will have a schism. If women are ordained then what will follow?

The Nuns started wearing civilian clothes and now a number of them are almost anti Rome. To relent and go one more step backward will surely bring about a diluted and ineffective Church. Holy Mother Church knows best!
[/quote]

man… couldn’t you be just a little more controversial here… sheese… :smiley:


#12

If God wanted women to be priest She would have said so.


#13

[quote=Greg_McPherran]Has the Church made an infallible pronouncement on this?

[/quote]

Whether or not one considers Ordinatio Sacerdotalis an infallible pronouncement (I think it satisfies all 3 conditions for extraordinary infallibilty), the message is crystal clear. In our Holy Father’s words:

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis

In the words of St. Augustine “Roma locuta est, causa finita est.”


#14

[quote=kepha1]Gender Roles, Male Priests, Equality, and Feminism

ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ116.HTM

I can’t say it better than Dave Armstrong
[/quote]

Good article


#15

Space Ghost,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exporter
*The day that the Catholic Church allows women to be ordained to the Priesthood will be the day that will begin the downfall of Holy Mother Church.

There are enough Liberals in positions of authority to push for many other so-called liberating but scandalous changes. The Anglicans experimented with Gay Bishops aand it looks like they will have a schism. If women are ordained then what will follow?

The Nuns started wearing civilian clothes and now a number of them are almost anti Rome. To relent and go one more step backward will surely bring about a diluted and ineffective Church. Holy Mother Church knows best!*

man… couldn’t you be just a little more controversial here… sheese… :smiley:

Space Ghost, what is “controversial” is for women to be ordained to the Priesthood. Your Profile shows you are not Catholic, maybe you don’t have a dog in this fight - I do, I am Catholic.

Where did I write even one falsehood. You just don’t like the truth. Read Greg’s post and also Madaglan’s post, they back me up.:slight_smile:


#16

[quote=Exporter]Space Ghost,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exporter
The day that the Catholic Church allows women to be ordained to the Priesthood will be the day that will begin the downfall of Holy Mother Church.

There are enough Liberals in positions of authority to push for many other so-called liberating but scandalous changes. The Anglicans experimented with Gay Bishops aand it looks like they will have a schism. If women are ordained then what will follow?

The Nuns started wearing civilian clothes and now a number of them are almost anti Rome. To relent and go one more step backward will surely bring about a diluted and ineffective Church. Holy Mother Church knows best!

man… couldn’t you be just a little more controversial here… sheese… :smiley:

Space Ghost, what is “controversial” is for women to be ordained to the Priesthood. Your Profile shows you are not Catholic, maybe you don’t have a dog in this fight - I do, I am Catholic.

Where did I write even one falsehood. You just don’t like the truth. Read Greg’s post and also Madaglan’s post, they back me up.:slight_smile:
[/quote]

ok, it’s obviously vacation time for you… my profile doesn’t show a whole lot of things… i don’t see how this should be a FIGHT anyway… how about just some civil debate… if you looked at the end of my first post you would have seen the smiling, joking, teasing face… just trying to lighten what usually turns into and unfriendly discussion… pour yourself some of your favorite drink, step back from the computer and relax…

if it makes you feel any better (and i know it won’t) i have been Catholic since 1955… missed 2 sundays since 1955 due to hospitalization…

Now how about a serious response to the Woman as Priest debate, i personally feel that i won’t see it in my lifetime… if it were to happen… if by some revelation from heaven the church decided to ordain women…??? Well i would do the same thing that i have done since 1955… dutifully follow Romes direction…

Remember, the gates of hell will not prevail… but now let’s talk about that drink… :thumbsup:


#17

This issue has been settled by the pope. There can never be women ordained to the priesthood.


#18

[quote=space ghost]not in our life times my friends, not in our life times…
[/quote]

Or any other. The Pope has stated that he does not have the authority to change Church doctrine. Look for the Lord to come in His Glory before women become priests.

God bless and keep you.


#19

That reminds me. You know why Episcopalians are no good at chess? They confuse bishops and queens.

Sorry…off topic.


#20

[quote=Greg_McPherran]Has the Church made an infallible pronouncement on this?
[/quote]

Yes. Please see this reply from “Ask An Apologist.”

In addition to the answer given there, I might add this: Since a priest acts “in persona Christi” in the Eucharist and all other sacraments, he allows his own person–body and soul–to be used by Christ. Having women priests would effectively force Christ to change his gender.


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