Women Priests


#1

Help! My friend, a cradle Catholic, asked why women cannot be priests and I totally blanked. Why is that again? As a new Catholic, I should know that one!:blush:


#2

Sacre something ordinato----

Its a papal document that is clear cut. Can not ever happen. Amen.:cool:

I better get you the correct wording on it. And a link to the document - it can be found at the Holy See official site.


#3

well as cs lewis once said you could have women priests and many religons throughout history have had women priests, but you would not have a christian religion.

I imagine CS Lewis is rolling in his grave to see women celebrating whatever they are celebrating in westminster cathedral.


#4

In Letter of John Paul II to Women, starting at paragraph 11, he explains why women cannot be ordained to the ministerial priesthood. I hope it helps. :slight_smile:


#5

I have the debate with a Lutheran. He just objected with I gave this answer.

A priest acts in the Person of Christ. The priest is also the Groom of the Bride the Church. So if we have a female become a priestess, she becomes a bride of bride the Church. So it would invoke same sex union. :eek: Women priesthood in Christianity particularly in Catholicism does not make sense. It was never practice and it should never BE allowed period.

Women are better off as nuns, mothers, and care takers. Women and Men are equal in dignity but they are not the same.

I also said that Jesus is male and he choose 12 Apostles, men. God did not intend woman to be a priest. In the Jewish priesthood, the Jewish priesthood is also all male. Since Jesus was raised a Jew, a woman priest would be completely against Jewish traditions.

In the consecration, the priest act as the Person of Jesus Christ. If a woman stood there she would be Christ, which totally goes against with Jesus commandment, “do this in memory of me.”

The Church itself is does not have the authority to allow women priest.


#6

Here you go:

wacklepedia.com/c/ca/catholicism.html#Ordination

:smiley:

4 - 13

Look up the document at the Holy See for the better source.


#7

I always think those who grumble against Church teaching on the priesthood would do well to read and meditate on Numbers 16. It is a warning to those who rebel against restrictions on the priesthood and also to those who support those in rebellion.
(Korah, by the way, was of the tribe of Levi - the tribe set aside for sacred duties. However, he was not of Aaron’s line and therefore did not qualify for the priesthood. He was not content to be among those who had charge of the ark, and other sacred articles.)

Num.16
*[1] Now Korah … [2] took men; and they rose up before Moses, with a number of the people of Israel, … [3] and they assembled themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said to them, “You have gone too far! For all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them; why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the LORD?”

[8] And Moses said to Korah, "Hear now, you sons of Levi: [9] is it too small a thing for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself, to do service in the tabernacle of the LORD, and to stand before the congregation to minister to them; [10] and that he has brought you near him, and all your brethren the sons of Levi with you? And would you seek the priesthood also? [11] Therefore it is against the LORD that you and all your company have gathered together;…

[16] And Moses said to Korah, "Be present, you and all your company, before the LORD, you and they, and Aaron, tomorrow; … [19] Then Korah assembled all the congregation against them at the entrance of the tent of meeting. And the glory of the LORD appeared to all the congregation.

[20] And the LORD said to Moses and to Aaron, [21] “Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment.” …
[23] And the LORD said to Moses, [24] “Say to the congregation, Get away from about the dwelling of Korah, Dathan, and Abi’ram.”
[25] Then Moses rose and went to Dathan and Abi’ram; and the elders of Israel followed him. [26] And he said to the congregation, “Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of theirs, lest you be swept away with all their sins.” [27] So they got away from about the dwelling of Korah, Dathan, and Abi’ram; and Dathan and Abi’ram …

[28] And Moses said, “Hereby you shall know that the LORD has sent me to do all these works, and that it has not been of my own accord. [29] If these men die the common death of all men, or if they are visited by the fate of all men, then the LORD has not sent me. [30] But if the LORD creates something new, and the ground opens its mouth, and swallows them up, with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into Sheol, then you shall know that these men have despised the LORD.”

[31] And as he finished speaking all these words, the ground under them split asunder; [32] and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up,… [33] So they and all that belonged to them went down alive into Sheol; …

[41] But on the morrow all the congregation of the people of Israel murmured against Moses and against Aaron, …" …[44] and the LORD said to Moses, [45] “Get away from the midst of this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment.” And they fell on their faces.

[46] And Moses said to Aaron, “Take your censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and lay incense on it, and carry it quickly to the congregation, and make atonement for them; for wrath has gone forth from the LORD, the plague has begun.” …[48] And he stood between the dead and the living; and the plague was stopped. [49] Now those who died by the plague were fourteen thousand seven hundred, besides those who died in the affair of Korah. …*
It appears there were some in the early Church who also grumbled and desired the priesthood (Jude verses 8 and 11).

Nita


#8

Good Link here:

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0001.html


#9

Even when Deborah was Judge of all Israel, there were only male priests.

A male-only priesthood does not take anything away from women’s ability or right to be in authority, and to be equal in every way with men.


#10

Also, dont forget women are invalid matter.

Also, dont forget Jesus was the bridegroom of his Bride, the Church.

In addition to the document I posted earlier via link.


#11

After mass today there were several of us standing around with our priest and we all said that cradle Catholics often know LESS than converts . . . and we were all cradle Catholics so we admitted our own ignorance.

As to the answer, its Papal decree. But just as a rebut, while women can’t be Priests, men can’t be Nuns! :smiley:


#12

I think the discussion should always include a careful and logical explanation about what is deficient in an all-male priesthood – if one is proposing a female priesthood.

If the existing priesthood was found lacking, if priests have not been preaching the “full” gospel and giving us the whole story, then that would be a tremendous item of news that we would all want to share and as soon as possible.

But, as JPII said in that link that Della so kindly provided, most men are also NOT ordained priests just as all women are not.

To me, the whole conversation is a distraction from participating in the Mass.

In my diocese, the last bishop was so against ordaining just men, that he vowed to not ordain any more men until he could ordain women as well, and so he died not having ordained more men.

In stead, he recruited as many women as possible for every other office, such as lay minister, Eucharistic ministers, diocesan staff, etc. and he gave permission for women to preach. According to canon law, women who were properly trained could preach in services where there were no priests available, and so this bishop was engineering just those circumstances to create those opportunities.

So, even today, with umpteen explanations why women cannot be priests, the new bishop is still explaining this in every occasion that there is such an opportunity to confront him with the question. The “agenda” is still alive.

As a man, I experienced the men-not-wanted reality in my own parish. I spoke to the priest about starting a bible reading and discussion group. He thwarted me every way he could, which isn’t hard when you’re the pastor. You just say “no.”

And, that, even while the diocese was collecting Catholic Services Appeal money, part of which was going for – what else? – setting up adult formation and bible study in the parish.

He briefly allowed the startup of a bible group which was run, of course, by a female DRE. His inspiration, of course, was a determined woman who wanted to start up a bible study in her parish, in the east, and did so successfully. I happen to know our parish DRE is strictly a modernist everything’s-myth exegete, and so I am not surprised that the thing fell apart within three months and has not been heard from since. I think it’s her ideology that doomed the thing; I don’t think her gender would have led to the failure so fast.

In various ways, the Bible teaches an order among men and women, based on mutual respect and submission, not so much as to each other, but to God. That’s a very delicate and subtle truth that leads one to say “that’s OK” to have an all-male priesthood.

I think it’s a healthy discussion to discern God’s will.


#13

In order for any sacrament to be valid, there must be proper intent, form and matter.

In the case of holy orders, the “matter” must be male because Jesus only ordained male disciples at the last supper.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:


#14

tricky…I think people are thinking…if false priests were allowed on the altar why not a woman. St. Brigid of Ireland was a Bishop. In the bible it is mentioned that “Phoebe” as a minister.
isn’t nuns brides to the church?

Also, people are thinking many divorces are condoned through annullments why not allow women to be priests and priests be allowed to marry. People are desperate…


#15

Key word being “if.” False priests are not allowed on the altar.

St. Brigid of Ireland was a Bishop.

Do you have a reliable source for this information? Somehow, her name never got recorded in any Catholic list of Bishops.

In the bible it is mentioned that “Phoebe” as a minister.

Phoebe was a lay helper at Mass. She was not a priest.

isn’t nuns brides to the church?

No; they are brides of Christ.

Also, people are thinking many divorces are condoned through annullments why not allow women to be priests and priests be allowed to marry.

What does the alleged lax attitude towards divorce by some Tribunals have to do with women and married priests? :confused:

People are desperate…

Yes, they certainly are.


#16

I am curious as to how the pastor could say “No” if you and a few like minded people wanted to set up a Bible Study in your own homes without any parish sponsorship. In the now distant past I was involved in one or two of those with friends and our Pastor never said boo. I don’t know if he was aware they were going on. There is plenty of good orthodox material available so the danger of your going astray would be quite minimal.

Back on topic we have several retired priests living in our parish and one out of the three still champions the need for women in our Church and I don’t think he means Altar/Rosary Society.


#17

Oh boy- here we go again…

The priest at Mass is “Alter Christus”. He acts “In persona Christi”.

“Christ” is a MALE PERSON.

A female cannot be “alter Christus” because she is not a male person.

In order for a female to be a priest, Jesus Christ would have to be a female. If Jesus Christ was a female, then it would be impossible for a man to be a preist.

Case closed.

Ken


#18

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