Women's movement


#1

This is family-related. Ish.

I used to be a tom-boy. I wore pants all the time, took Tae-Kwon-Do (I still put my fist up when I’m suprised, reflex that won’t seem to go away) and wanted to be treated as equal to a boy. In strength and everything. Yet I still wore my hair long…

Anyways, now I’ve taken a liking to skirts, I’m being a bit more courtious and polite than I used to be and I’ve noticed something.

The women’s movement has sucked everyone in. I used to hold the door for everyone (ok, I still do), but for a boy to hold a door for a girl is rare. I’m almost shocked when a kind boy at school does that for me. And carrying books is unheard of. The boy’s are letting this happen. There are boys and men out there afraid of paying for dinner, or holding the door, because their woman might snap at them. ‘I can do it myself.’

Now, I’m all for a woman doing what she can and getting paid similiar wages. Go to war if you can handle it, if you can do it. You can help. But that does not mean that men have to back down. There are still traditionalist girls out there (me) that want someone to hold the door or pull out their chair for them. If you go on a date and she snaps at you for helping her into her chair, she isn’t right for you.

So, my challenge to all men and young men out there, become the chivalrous knights that every girl secretly wishes for. Become The Lover from the Song of Songs.

4 He has taken me to the banquet hall,
and his banner over me is love.
5 Strengthen me with raisins,
refresh me with apples,
for I am faint with love.
6 His left arm is under my head,
and his right arm embraces me.

                          Song of Songs 2: 4-6

#2

You’re right. The women’s movement may have had some good points, but like a lot of things, it went way too far. Ruined it for a lot of women.

When I met my wife, it was a real struggle to open the door for her. I was raised old fashioned, and she was used to men who were not. She wouldn’t even think about it and open the door before I could get to it, or sit down before I could grab the chair. It was kind of funny, it became sort of a game for me to see if I could do the right thing before she did it herself. She finally came to expect these things.

The sad part is that I get weird looks from people when I do these things in public. I wouldn’t think of going through a door before a woman. Yet, sometimes, women seem almost afraid of me if I open the door and wait for them. Only older women seem to understand it. Sad, sad, sad.


#3

I always opened doors for women when I was dating. A remember a couple of women who were suprised by it. They were all flattered.

When I met my wife, she wasn’t used to that treatment. She quickly got used to it though. I still open doors for her. The only time I go through a door first is when the door opens away from me. I’ll walk through so I can hold it in that case.

My wife got used to it pretty quickly. Now when we go a place that has a foyer area with doors on each side I’ll hold open the first door and she walks through. She’ll then wait at the second door for me to get there and open it for her. When she buys something at the mall, I’ll carry the bag for her.

Sadly boys are not taught how to treat women anymore. I agree, the feminist movement has contributed to this. Oddly, this movement has resulted in less respect for women.


#4

I have to add to this that I taught my boys to do this. I get the best compliments when we go out and my 11 year old holds the door for a lady. It’s also funny to see him and the 4 year old fight over who holds the door for people. By the way, it’s not just women. I’ve taught them to do it for everyone as a common courtesy.


#5

Hi Pro-life,

I’m a Tomboy too and for the longest time I was confused about how to handle dating. I wanted to do the “right” thing and I was so confused about whether I should pay my share or wait in the car for my date to open the door for me. I read the reasons for letting a man do these things in John Gray’s book, Mars and Venus on a Date. At first I wasn’t sure but thought I’d try letting the guy show chivalry. It made a big difference and I was surprised. The whole tone of the date changed for the better. John explained, “It’s not that men think you are too weak to open the door yourself, it’s that they want to show you that you are appreciated.” I feel very secure in allowing men to show their chivalry and I’m glad you found this out too. As for people watching, let them look and learn :wink:

I want to take the rainbow back too, even though I’m supportive of gays.

Crystal


#6

many men have been badly burned by trying to exhibit courteous behavior they were brought up with, but receiving scathing looks and remarks and insulting comments from women to whom they showed respect. So as not to offend they no longer call women Miss or Mrs., open doors, or pay for them on dates. They also sit around in bars complaining they can’t figure out what women want.


#7

[quote=puzzleannie]They also sit around in bars complaining they can’t figure out what women want.
[/quote]

No, we sit around everywhere and complain about how we can’t figure out what they want.

What do they want anyways?

Pro-Life_Teen: don’t give up on Tae Kwon Do.


#8

The feminist movement has done much more harm than good not to just to women but society as a whole. What it’s really done is degrade women. It was from the women’s movement that we got no fault divorce, women who feel they are only worthwhile if they are in the paid workforce, contraception, sex without consequences. Feminists do not, in general, want equal treatment of women. They want a restructuring of society in which we create federal laws in order force feminists ideals upon society. For example, NOW’s goals as described at their annual convention:

NOW’s resolutions document what is meant by “feminism,” namely, the Equal Rights Amendment, abortion on demand at any time during pregnancy and financed by the taxpayers, homosexual and lesbian privileges, affirmative action quotas for women, government child care, legalization of prostitution, assigning women to military combat duty, and political action at every level of government to achieve these goals.

And sadly, the feminists present these goals as the goals of all women, saying they are fighting for the equality of all women.

Don’t be ashamed to say you’re not a feminist, that you are a traditional woman. And don’t be afraid to seek out a traditional man. I don’t know how old you are, but it sounds like you are young. Remember that boys you may be dating were raised by women who grew up during women’s lib. Speak up and say, hey, open that door for me! I am a lady and you will be a gentleman!


#9

I definitely have a problem accepting chivalry. My husband is one of the most chivalrous men I know. Part of the problem is that many women grow up without that kind of respect in the home. I too was a tom boy. Part of learning to accept and give chivalry is seeing it modeled in the home. I have two sisters and a brother but my brother or father NEVER held open doors, pulled out chairs, or did anything chivalrous. We were lucky if they helped us carry in groceries. We were the ones that waited on them and did everything for them. To this day, I still open doors for the men in my family. It is a habit that I still struggle with.

Personally, I think the women’s movement stinks. Last night, I went to a function where I was asked when I was going to go to work full time. I told them that I had thought about it but everytime I do, I get pregnant. The reply was that I should think about not getting pregnant and get a job instead. I know it doesn’t have much to do with opening doors but I feel it is a direct result of the women’s movement.

P.S. I was a tom boy. I knew more about cars than my husband when we got married. I can change my own oil, tires, etc…now my husband does it for me and I am happy to oblige him.


#10

[quote=ConcernCatholic]I definitely have a problem accepting chivalry. My husband is one of the most chivalrous men I know. Part of the problem is that many women grow up without that kind of respect in the home. I too was a tom boy. Part of learning to accept and give chivalry is seeing it modeled in the home. I have two sisters and a brother but my brother or father NEVER held open doors, pulled out chairs, or did anything chivalrous. We were lucky if they helped us carry in groceries. We were the ones that waited on them and did everything for them. To this day, I still open doors for the men in my family. It is a habit that I still struggle with.

Personally, I think the women’s movement stinks. Last night, I went to a function where I was asked when I was going to go to work full time. I told them that I had thought about it but everytime I do, I get pregnant. The reply was that I should think about not getting pregnant and get a job instead. I know it doesn’t have much to do with opening doors but I feel it is a direct result of the women’s movement.

P.S. I was a tom boy. I knew more about cars than my husband when we got married. I can change my own oil, tires, etc…now my husband does it for me and I am happy to oblige him.
[/quote]

Remarks like that are a direct result of the women’s movement. The woman’s contribution in the home is not nearly as values as it was 30 years ago.

I think one of the best things we can do as parents is to teach our sons to respect women. If we do this, it will make a real difference.


#11

yeah life was totally great for girls before the women’s movement. It was really good for black people too in the old days.


#12

I quit a while ago, but it seems that martial arts have seeped into my blood. I still sit on the edge of my seat during competitions on TV and the like. I might get back into it, but there’s no good dojo around here. My old teacher moved and the newer teacher really didn’t teach us anything. I’ll ask St. Anthony to help me find a good school…


I’m not certain whether this is supposed to be sarcastic or not. I’m going to assume it is. And I know women were treated with disdain at times in the ‘olden days.’ I like History and my favorite time-period (along with ancient Greece) is the Middle Ages. Still, women were supposed to be treated with respect then. A man was to walk at her side in a fashion that he could quickly push her away and draw a sword if anything infront of them could harm her. He was also supposed to walk before her, arm up, down the stairs, should she stumble. In that case, he was to catch her. A man was supposed to help keep a woman’s honor from being slandered. This was mostly in ballads that a woman was a pure flower, but the image stayed. And it should still be like that, in my opinion.

And the woman’s movement is annoying, to say the least. I like to write and my job, as I see it now, will be a SAHM during the day and perhaps writing in the evening. I don’t want to be a 9-5 job-holder, when I can stay at home with my children. Who, no doubt, will prove more loving and entertaining, not to mention more fullfilling, than any other job.


#13

pro-life-teen,

If you like history, there is a great book you should check out, it’s called “The Bonds of Womanhood,” by Nancy Cotts. I hope you get a chance to read it, i’m sure you’ll like it. Last post was sarcastic, this one wasn’t.


#14

And for good balance, check out Phyllis Schlafly’s Feminist Fantasies. It’s an excellent book - a compliation of essays written by her over the past 30 years on the ERA, women in the military, the traditional family, and other related topics. She is a brilliant writer.


#15

A little story. My husband is a door opener. I’m an old fashioned kind of girl so it fit with us perfectly. I’m 42 He’s43. Our peers go either way on the door opening , meal buying isssue. Anyway several years ago my son then 12 now almost 18 was in elementary school. A mother of one of his classmates came to me in tears. Now this woman was a single mother with two girls who I never quite knew what to think of.I never had the chance to talk or get to know her. Her daughter used to cut up in school and get in trouble. I passed it off to a broken home kind of thing. Any way my son recieved an invitation to her birthday party and he went and when I came to pick me up the Mom pulled me over to the side . She said , with tears in her eyes “Thank you for raising your son like a gentleman. He made such a differerence for K (the daughter) because he holds the door open for her.” She made a few other comments about how difficult it has been for her to show her girls positive male role modes- cruel, violent husband., few more bad choices of men. But my son’s example caused her daughter to tell her to pick a man like my son because he opened the door for her. She said it made so much sense that she used that to gage men in her own life and seemed to picking better dates.She didn’t know where to start to expect more of men and the door opening led her to look at other types of behavior and make choices. Of course at that point we looked like idiots crying at Lazer Zone. Other parents and kids were ready to leave and the conversation ended.

So you never know what that simple bit of courtesy does.


#16

My fiance is old-fashioned as well. I only had one real bf before him, that was when I was 17 and lasted about 2 months. I had been on a few dates with guy friends of mine and I always paid for myself and everything. My fiance took me to dinner for our first date, in fact he called me and asked me to dinner which never happened before. He was on time, polite (he had driven to my house then turned around and drove to the restaurant and back just so he knew where he was going) He opned the door of the car and helped me in…he was so sweet and he still does all that!!! I feel so loved because he does small things like that. We’ve been together almost 3 years now, he is so awesome!


#17

[quote=Benedictus]No, we sit around everywhere and complain about how we can’t figure out what they want.

What do they want anyways?

Pro-Life_Teen: don’t give up on Tae Kwon Do.
[/quote]

Never give up on being able to defend yourself. Jillian Rose, my 4 1/2 year old niece, is being given both ballet and karate lessons. In today’s world she must be able to be graceful and safe.

I agree that the movement to bring equality to the workplace and to the legal structure somehow gave people the idea that women and men were exactly the same in every way. This is incorrect. However, let us not forget that at one time in this country women were not allowed to vote. In fact a Supreme Court decision about community property was written up to read that “a married couple should be regarded as one person - and the man is that one person” by a highly regarded Justice - Justice Black.

We must always remember that movements such as the women’s movement would not have taken root in a country that had followed exactly what Catholic Christian teachings have always been - that all people are to be treated with equal dignity and respect. Like Ghandi said, if all Christians in India properly practiced their religion, there would be no Hindi left in the country.

If we want to make a real mark on feminism, we need to take it back from those who would make women ashamed of being women.


#18

I’ve always held the door open for anyone, that’s just how I was taught.

I rarely carry someones books, because then I’d have to walk to their room and I’d never make it to mine. I usually stop to help someone pick up their books if they drop them. I remember once I dropped my books down the stairs and withen 10 seconds 4 people handed it all back to me, it was pretty cool, like having a personal help team.

And although I always do pay for anything, I hate it, do you know how expensive things are for just me? Now I have to pay double? Taking a girl to the movies cost me like two weeks of eating lunch.
It pays out in the end though. Emotionally at least. Physically it hurts.


#19

[quote=Pro-Life_Teen].

The women’s movement has sucked everyone in. I used to hold the door for everyone (ok, I still do), but for a boy to hold a door for a girl is rare. I’m almost shocked when a kind boy at school does that for me. And carrying books is unheard of. The boy’s are letting this happen. There are boys and men out there afraid of paying for dinner, or holding the door, because their woman might snap at them. ‘I can do it myself.’

[/quote]

I am 38 and have always had men open the door for me. This is probably because I am small(5 foot). I teach my boys-16 and 13- to open doors for women also.


#20

[quote=Pro-Life_Teen]I
I’m not certain whether this is supposed to be sarcastic or not. I’m going to assume it is. And I know women were treated with disdain at times in the ‘olden days.’ I like History and my favorite time-period (along with ancient Greece) is the Middle Ages. Still, women were supposed to be treated with respect then. A man was to walk at her side in a fashion that he could quickly push her away and draw a sword if anything infront of them could harm her. He was also supposed to walk before her, arm up, down the stairs, should she stumble. In that case, he was to catch her. A man was supposed to help keep a woman’s honor from being slandered. This was mostly in ballads that a woman was a pure flower, but the image stayed. And it should still be like that, in my opinion.

.
[/quote]

I do agree that the modern women’s movement has serious faults. Women aren’t and never will be the same as men. This is wrong.

But…you have a skewered view of history. Although I do not think, like some feminist, that women were treated more worse then anyone else in history, I also do not think that past historical periods were good times to be women.


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