Does any one know where I can find the words that JW’s use for their Baptism service? Thanks
As of 1985 baptismal candidates are asked:
On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?
From The Watchtower June 1, 1985, p.30.
That is it? No Matt. 28:19?
No. Not at all.
And even if they used it, their belief that Christ is the angel Michael and that the Holy Spirit is basically nothing but God’s active force would still render their baptism invalid.
And when they come to your door they have the hide to call themselves Christian???
The mind boggles?
Does not matter, they use an invalid formula for baptism.
I know. I was just curious.
I am sure you know,but JW’s will argue it is valid.
I will be seeing my JW friend tomorrow and I plan on asking her how their baptism compares to the one at the end of Matthews gospel. They seem to follow the bible literally I don’t how she will be able to reconcile the two.
Good question, please let us know how she replies. There is no “godhead” or Trinity in their tradition, so I’m very curious.
Whew! My friend, I once lived (5 years) with a former roommate who is JW. I will not be shocked if she tells you that we are apostates and perverted the Word of God,blah,blah,blah. I heard it all for five years. One of the difficulties with JW’s is the fact, they are bent on using only their own literature. And why? Because they have been programmed to believe anything outside the Watchtower Society are lies. Good luck.
I spoke with my friend today and didn’t get too far. She was familiar with the 2 questions. She did say that before they are baptized they listen to a talk then they are asked the 2 questions and then dunked. She did say that if they say anything when she was being dunked she didn’t hear it. She says she has a Christian baptism.
I asked her about Matthew 28:19-20. I asked knowing that they take the bible literally what do they think about this verse and baptism and is it used in their baptism rite. She started to say something like these words weren’t used when John baptized Jesus. It didn’t make sense to me either. I told her that Jesus just said the words and this is how he wants us to be baptized.
Any way she said that she was going to ask the elders about their baptism rite. She said that she never thought about it before I mentioned it.
I will keep you updated. I won’t see her now until next Friday.
Elders who perform the baptism do not utter any special formula, such as “I baptize you in the name of the Father…” etc.
It is also not a “rite” or “sacrament.” Except for observing an odd Communion service once a year (one where almost no one partakes of the communion elements), there are no rituals in the JW religion–at least none they wish to label by the term “ritual.”
They do claim (or at least in the past claimed) that a JW baptism makes the Witness an ordained minister. The act is viewed as no more than public demonstration that they have died to their former way of life and are now part of Jehovah’s sole organization of life on earth.
Yep! As I figured. They always try to find some excuse.
Hi DelsonJacobs, Matt Guiter Man here, I realy enjoy your posts by the way your willingness to share and be open with your journy of faith is a real credit to you I admire you ver much. The insight you provide pertaing to the Jehovah Witness religion is a very valuable resource for everyone on the forum as I am sure everyone would agree. My sister in law has been a JW for 30 years and I have attended some JW meetings etc to find out more about what she and they beleived in an effort to foster good family relations. (Thats another story).
One thing that always got me was. How do they actually worship? Coming from a background of the liturgy and vespers etc I could not see how they Worshiped God? I mean besides the odd very badly sung Wesleyan sounding hymn there didnt seem to be much else. Am I missing something? Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
By the way I very much hope you are enjoying once more lifes voyage in the Bauch of St Peter.
Thanks Matt. I am glad that I can help in some way.
You hit the nail on the head and are missing nothing. The JWs engage in no acts of worship like the Mass or the Divine Liturgy. They do not use the Psalter for prayer. Meditative and contemplative prayer, even Lectio Divina are not allowed. Except for saying prayers that have be thought up on the spot and singing from their songbook, they engage in nothing else that matches the liturgy of worship once practiced at the Temple and carried over into both the synagogue and the Christian churches of today.
While some of them might protest and claim that their study and preaching work are considered worship of God, this is due to their belief that God no longer deals with persons in mystical ways. For them “spirituality” is little more than studying their own publications–and the “studying” isn’t even studying. It is just underlying words and phrases in their books.
And yes, I am enjoying life like never before!
Good on you Delson,
How sad that all sounds, I sometimes think I could not go on without the meditation of the Mass and the public liturgy of the Church it is our tradition and inheritance. And they rested not Day & Night giving glory and honour to God singing Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of power and might, Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord Hosanna in the highest. Some where in the world the Mass and Eucharist are being celebrated right now in honour and Praise and Worship of God, that thought always comforts me.
Thanks again for the info. I am anxious compare what my friend has to say to what you said now that I KNOW the truth.
She did say something like that. That is why they baptize adults because after they are to be preachers and teachers. My friend was raised a Catholic. I wonder went wrong for her to become a JW?
I know how they got me. It may shed light on your friend’s situation who was also raised Catholic. The way the Witnesses get you is through pride. It’s very psychological, but it’s also the oldest trick in the book…or should I say “Oldest Trick in the Book.”
None of us knows everything about our particular religion. There are mysteries that transcend our understanding. This goes for practically all of us, regardless of creed. Even the psalmist acknowledged this when he wrote:
O Lord, my heart is not proud,
nor haughty my eyes.
I have not gone after things too great,
nor marvels beyond me.
Truly, I have set my soul
in tranquility and silence.
As a weaned child on its mother,
as a weaned child is my soul within me.
O Israel, wait for the Lord,
both now and forever.–Psalm 131.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses tell you this is wrong. They tell you that we have questions because God wants us to have and find the definitive answers. “Would a loving God give you the desire to know the answers to all the great mysteries in life and not supply a way for you to have them now?”
Of course, you answer. If God is loving (and I know God is) then surely he would supply these answers.
Jehovah’s Witnesses tell you they have all the answers to life’s greatest mysteries: “They are all found in the Bible.”
If you agree to this, they begin a process of indoctrination whereby the Bible is reduced to no more than the status of a child’s Magic 8 Ball…inspired of God, of course, but no more practical than a textbook that supplies all the answers for life: how to dress, how to think, what to believe, what jokes to laugh at and which to give a frown to, what religion to belong to, even how to correctly fill out your tax forms!
Suddenly you have all the answers. They teach you to tell others that you have different beliefs because you yourself did all the research into the Bible and now you know for yourself. Of course no one learns these JW doctrines by themselves, but that doesn’t stop them from acting like they came up with their newfound convictions due to their own efforts.
Sadly, if you get this far it is because you fell for the greatest “straw man” pitch ever! Did any of you see the fallacy when I brought it up?
The straw man pitch the Witnesses use is this: The claim that God intends us to have all the answers to all life’s mysteries.
As the psalm I quoted above demonstrates, God never promises we will have all the answers like God does. Ever read the book of Job? It begins with Job asking God why he and other good people suffer and ends with God asking Job: Who are you to ask “why”?–Job 42:1-6.
Ever read Acts? Remember the first chapter when Christ’s own apostles want to know the details about the coming Kingdom of God, and do you remember the answer from Jesus? He told them the answer doesn’t belong to humans.–Acts 1:6-7.
How about Genesis? Remember the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad that the snake told Eve would give her the same knowledge that God had about life, the universe, and everything? How did that turn out?
It’s the oldest straw man pitch in the book. It targets us at the center of our sinfulness and desire to have what we are not entitled to. They get you the way the original serpent got Eve: "Your eyes will be opened and you will be like God who knows good and evil.”–Genesis 3:5.
It’s not that God doesn’t want us to have any answers or keep us in the dark. He does want to teach us, but on his own terms and in his own way.
Your friend is caught in a snare of ego-centric pride. She now “knows for herself,” even though she was hand-fed all she now believes from other Witnesses. Now she knows “the truth!”
It’s the Oldest Trick in the Book.