Works, Faith and Life


#1

My mom wanted me to start this thread. She and my Aunt (who has left the Catholic church and now goes to a “non-denominational” church) have been emailing eachother verses dealing with faith, works, and what you are justified by. (this all started at my little brothers baptism. btw, he is now 9 weeks old, is 22 inches, and 10.5 lbs) She recently sent us these verses:

   Titus 3:5-7
   2 Tim. 1:7-12
   1 John 1:5-2:2, 4:9-17, 5:10-13

The first three puzzled us as to what they had to do with the topic. What was she trying to convey? Or was she trying to change the subject without us realizing it? We responded with:
James 2:14-26
Romans 2:6-11, Gal 6:6-10

What would you have responded with?


#2

Faith plus works:
Jam 2:24, a man is justified by works and not by fiath alone
Jam 2:26, aith without works is dead
Gal 5:6, only thing that counts is faith working in love
1Cor 13:2, faith without love is nothing
Jn 14:15, if you love me , keep my commandments
Mt 19:16-17, if wish to enter into life, keep commandments

Good Works:
Mt 7:21, not lord lord, but he who does the will of Father
Jn 14:21, he who keeps my commandments loves me
Rom 2:2-8, eternal life by perseverance in good works
Eph 2:8-10, we are created in Christ Jesus for good works
Phil 2:12-24, a man is justified by works and not faith alone

Judged according to dees:
Rom 2:5-8, God will repay each man according to his works
2Cor 5:10, recompense accord to what did in body
2Cr 11:15, their end will correspond to their deeds
1 Pet 1:17, God judges impartially according to one’s works
Reve 20:12-13, dead judged according to their deeds
Col 3:24-25, will receive due payment for whatever you do


#3

Mention Titus 3:8 & 3:14. You might also have her read Luke 19:1-10, here Zacchaeus is told by Jesus that his household has received salvation after Zacchaeus said that he would give away half his possessions. Sounds alot like works to me.


#4

Th

e first three puzzled us as to what they had to do with the topic. What was she trying to convey?

She was trying to convey that baptism requires informed consent, as the quotes are on salvation

5] he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit,

Water is the “washing of regeneration” and the Holy Spirit is never separated from water regarding baptism anywhere in the bible. This verse does not discount the necessity of good deeds, it simply says that good deeds are not salvific apart from Christ as far as being a Christian is concerned. The Catholic Church does not teach salvation by works alone, which is the Pelagian heresy condemned at the Council of Orange.[font=Arial][/font]

2 Tim 1:9 is the “works” mantra Protestants don’t understand. Love is a “work” too, as it is an act of the will. Yes, I would call it a red herring or a change of subject if you will. There are two types of “works” in the bible, good works and the works of the law. Some Protestants will mix and match to their own liking, unaware that they are totally different Greek renderings.

[font=Arial]Or was she trying to change the subject without us realizing it? We responded with:
James 2:14-26
Romans 2:6-11, Gal 6:6-10

[/font]Yes, she successfully changed the subject with “works” and led you off the topic of baptism. When you allow non-Catholics to throw you off, they think you had no answer. I would respond with an explanation of original sin, then baptism. Many Protestants believe all sin is the same, and see no difference between actual sin and original sin. We sinned in Adam without informed consent, and therefore can be removed without informed consent, that is why we can baptize babies. Actual sin is committed with our informed consent, and that is why we need confession.

Try and work towards the authority of the Church, and the Primacy of Peter, Apostolic Succession, etc. If someone has the freedom to jump topics out of the blue, then so do you. A basic framework is necessary to get started or you end up:banghead: .

kepha1


#5

THanks. I willl sure to let Mom know this stuff! (I could use it for a few friends of mine as well…)


#6

I don’t know if she’s of the type who’d listen to C.S. Lewis, but…

“Faith and works are like two blades on the same pair of scissors.”

Mere Christianity

I don’t have the text handy right now so I can’t give you page numbers. Sorry.


#7

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.