Worried About Something I Read..... Please Help!


#1

I have been examining so many things lately thanks to a very awful message I read by someone knocking christianity all together…

And so many things are going through my head right now. I was reading a horrible article by someone anti-catholic obviously and it was saying that catholics go to hell because we worship saints. And that Pope John Paul II is in hell right now, which sends shivers down my spine just thinking of it.

It says that because we devout so much time to Mary and different saints (which is apparently a sin according to the bible) that all catholics are hell bound. And with all my doubt concerning religion all-together lately (very bad week) this has me really freaked out.

I have been having some really difficult times lately, especially with my faith, I have had such blasphemous thoughts lately about christianity that it honestly seems unforgivable.

Anyways, here’s the link to the website I was reading, And please don’t read if you don’t think you can handle it like I couldn’t.
jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/pope_burning_in_hell.htm
I have a couple questions:

  1. Does the bible really speak against praying to saints and such (I know there are probably a million times this has been asked but I have a couple more questions, so I wanted to put them all together)

  2. Does the bible say that salvation is a gift, and that you don’t have to “work”, because then the 10 commandments wouldn’t make much sense would they?


#2

From that site << “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” The Pope NEVER spoke of being “born-again.” >>

Born again = baptism. That’s what Christianity has taught John 3 meant for 1,500 years, even Luther taught that.

Another from that site << The Pope NEVER made any public profession of faith ALONE in Jesus Christ. >>

I’m pretty sure he said Mass every day, and confessed every day, so he certainly did. That site is nuts. :rolleyes: Oh I’m sure Billy Graham and the Pope are in hell. Yeah and Billy Graham is not a Christian and the Pope is not Catholic.

As for prayer to saints, this CA tract will do, or here is something from my site.

Phil P


#3

I can’t believe how easily I cracked and believe the garbage I read… I am so full of pitty for myself it’s not even funny. My faith is next to non existent at times and it doesn’t take much for me to get into this state of non-belief… Even the words of an ignorant punk on the internet made me question my faith in the bible.

Will I ever actually be happy as a catholic???


#4

Ah ha I see this person has taken out two domain names :smiley:

jesus-is-savior.com/

jesus-is-lord.com/

Yep looks like the same Jesus is Lord site mentioned in This Rock magazine a number of years ago. A KJV-Only and Jack Chick fan to boot. This graphic seems to be a favorite: :smiley:

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/niv.jpg

Except that should read “Douay Rheims” or NAB instead of NIV. :eek: :smiley: :smiley: You gotta have a sense of humor about these sites…

Phil P


#5

When I was a rad-trad Anglican, I took delight in asking fundamentalist-type protestants which Bible they used. When they said, “the KJV,” I answered, “Well, King James the Second was an Anglican. We’re glad you like *our *Bible.”

Of course, traditional Anglican Christianity (which gave us the KJV) bears about as much resemblance to fundamentalist Christianity as fire bears to ice.


#6

Dave << There are only 10 types of people in the world:
Those who understand binary and those who don’t. >>

Hey another way to say this:

There are only 10 types of people in the world: 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,A,B,C,D,E,F types, those who understand hexadecimal, and the other fifteen who wonder why you put letters with your numbers. :cool: :smiley:

Yeah on topic with this thread, I wish more people would just ignore those nutty sites. Too much good stuff to read, online and offline.

Phil P


#7

Will I ever actually be happy as a catholic???

Sure, but it depends on your perseverance. Obey the commandments, and receive the sacraments as often as possible as recommended by the Church. Go to confession once a month. Say the rosary every day. You don’t need to be a great theologian, or a popular apologist, or an author of inspiring books, or be ordained to have a clean conscience and peace in your heart. Our holy Catholic faith offers us everything we need to endure the trials of life.

Too many Catholics will curse the aspirin that failed to aid their headache. The problem is, they didn’t take the aspirin.

A book, when ripped out of the Church from whence it came, cannot do this by itself.

PhilVaz gave you excellent links. The only response anti-Catholics can counter with are noisy gongs, and clanging symbols.

There are millions of anti-Catholic “bible-Christian” web sites preoccupied with tearing down Catholicism. How many Catholic web sites can you find that tear them down with the same falsehoods and misrepresentations? NONE.

For any group who must support their “truth” by disproving another group, they cannot be truthful. Because to serve the truth, one has no need to disprove anything. Truth will stand on its own merits, or its not truth. Such disproving is self defeating.

Peter


#8

[quote=Steven87]I can’t believe how easily I cracked and believe the garbage I read… I am so full of pitty for myself it’s not even funny. My faith is next to non existent at times and it doesn’t take much for me to get into this state of non-belief… Even the words of an ignorant punk on the internet made me question my faith in the bible.

Will I ever actually be happy as a catholic???
[/quote]

Steven,
Our biggest foe is the devil. He hates it when we have faith in God and desire to have a relationship with God. The faith which you have is a gift from God and the devil and his minions hate the fact that you have the chance to grow closer to God. The devil cannot experience the joy of heaven so he will try to prevent you from getting there. You have to fight this evil and the way you do so is by praying, receiving the Eucharist, and confession. You must pour your heart out to God in prayer and in confession and receive the true Body of Christ in the Eucharist. If you feel guilty about the thoughts of doubt or blasphemy that you say you had, confess them along with any other sins as soon as possible, and you will be forgiven.

Do not be discouraged. That is exactly what the devil wants to do to you. Remember above all that God loves you more than you will ever know. If you are sorry for your sins and confess them and you will be forgiven. The Lord will not fail you when you cry to Him for help so do not be afraid or discouraged.

Try reading this passage from the Ephesians 6:10-18 and just think about it:

10 1 Finally, draw your strength from the Lord and from his mighty power.11 Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil.12 For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.13 Therefore, put on the armor of God, that you may be able to resist on the evil day and, having done everything, to hold your ground.14 So stand fast with your loins girded in truth, clothed with righteousness as a breastplate,15 and your feet shod in readiness for the gospel of peace.16 In all circumstances, hold faith as a shield, to quench all (the) flaming arrows of the evil one.17 And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.18 With all prayer and supplication, pray at every opportunity in the Spirit. To that end, be watchful with all perseverance and supplication for all the holy ones

Being a devout Catholic is not the easiest thing to do in our modern society, but with the help of Jesus we can do all things. You can be happy as a Catholic, but it probably won’t happen overnight. Don’t quit! Do not lose your faith and remember this life is only a waiting room for the afterlife. Some saints have lived hard lives but they were able to find happiness through loving God and after their deaths they experience even more joy in heaven.

Lastly Pray, Pray, Pray to Jesus as well as asking for Mary’s intercession. She loves to bring people closer to her Son. All of heaven is cheering for you.

God Bless,
matthew


#9

Don’t worry Steven87, next time they rub you up the wrong way, remind them that it was Catholic Cardinals that put the bible together at the council of carthage in 295 for us - so don’t tell us how to read our book.
It is also the Catholics who have been the defenders of Christianity for 13 centuries! Until Luther and mates came along…

Most of all pray to the Saints for guidance…:slight_smile: And ask the Saints to pray for them as well.

Good luck!


#10

I thought that, as Christian, we should’t judge the state of another’s soul. Yet this guy not only says that the Pope is in hell, he claims that both Billy Graham and President Bush aren’t Christians.


#11

Isn’t interesting how many folks think that being religious is being *against *the Catholic Church?

Hi, Steven.

ON PRAYING TO MARY…
The Gospel of John establishes Mary’s role as an intercessor – someone to pray to for help.

In John 2, we see the story of the Marriage Feast at Cana.

Now, “walk” with me through the story…

(1) **1 ****On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. ****2 ****Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding. ****3 **When the wine ran short,… John 2:1-3.

(1) The people attending the Wedding Feast, a Biblical figure for the “wedding” between Christ and His Church, need the salvation generated by Christ’s saving blood.

(2) 3…the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” John 2:3.

(2) Mary intercedes for the faithful.

(3) **4 **(And) Jesus said to her, “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come.” John 2:4.

(3) Jesus gives an answer an anti-Catholic Protestant would be tickled at: “It’s none of your business; and it’s not time to do this!” Note Jesus’ use of the title “Woman.”

(4) **5 **His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.” John 2:5.

(4) Mary, however, responds to Jesus’ theology by telling the ones needing her help to follow Jesus’ instructions, as though confident that her request, which Jesus said He does not need, and which Jesus said is poorly timed, will be honored, anyway!

(5) **6 ****Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washings, each holding twenty to thirty gallons. ****7 ****Jesus told them, “Fill the jars with water.” So they filled them to the brim. ****8 ****Then he told them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it. ****9 ****And when the headwaiter tasted the water that had become wine, without knowing where it came from (although the servers who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom ****10 **and said to him, “Everyone serves good wine first, and then when people have drunk freely, an inferior one; but you have kept the good wine until now.” John 2:6-10.

(5) Jesus then does a completely astonishing thing. Though Jesus, Who is God Himself, told Mary that He doesn’t need her help, and that her timing is bad, HE DOES PRECISELY WHAT SHE REQUESTS, ANYWAY!!!

The Pot Type = “mortal man.” The Six Type = “evil.” So, six jars = “evil mortal man.” Potable – “drinkable” – water = River Type = “salvation.” Wine = Jesus’ saving blood.

So, what we see here is Jesus, in response to Mary’s intercession, bringing about salvation of evil mortal man by His saving blood.

Now, remember that I asked you to focus in on Jesus’ use of “Woman” to address this “Mary the Intercessor.”

Now, see what Jesus says at the time of His crucifixion in the same gospel…

**26 ****When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.” ****27 **Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. John 19:26-27.

Why would He use the same “mother” title?

Answer: He is appointing Mary “Official Special Intercessor of the Church,” so to speak.

There you have it: The primary Biblical proof that the Catholic Church is correct on the Mary-as-Intercessor business.


#12

Salvation IS in fact a free gift.

However, we accept that gift by grace-energized “faith.” Faith is not just faith. Faith is a “works machine.”

When, in all of the history of mankind, did God EVER give out a grace of faith which was DEAD to works?

Not once.

Not once.

Not even once.

Jesus DESPISES “faith” which is dead to works.

Proof: Look what happens in the Parable of the Good Samaritan…
**30 ****Jesus replied, “A man fell victim to robbers as he went down from Jerusalem to Jericho. They stripped and beat him and went off leaving him half-dead. ****31 ****A priest happened to be going down that road, but when he saw him, he passed by on the opposite side. ****32 ****Likewise a Levite came to the place, and when he saw him, he passed by on the opposite side. ****33 ****But a Samaritan traveler who came upon him was moved with compassion at the sight. ****34 ****He approached the victim, poured oil and wine over his wounds and bandaged them. Then he lifted him up on his own animal, took him to an inn and cared for him. ****35 ****The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper with the instruction, ‘Take care of him. If you spend more than what I have given you, I shall repay you on my way back.’ ****36 ****Which of these three, in your opinion, was neighbor to the robbers’ victim?” ****37 **He answered, “The one who treated him with mercy.” Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.” Luke 10:30-37.

Now, the reason why Jesus uses first a priest who doesn’t do the good work, and then a Levite (of the priestly tribe) who doesn’t do the good work, is that each of these represent “faith without works.”

Then we have the Samaritan – an ostensible NON-believer – who engages in “works.”

Who, of the three, does Jesus CLEARLY prefer?

“Mr. Faith-Without-Works #1”?

“Mr. Faith-Without-Works #2”?

Or, “Mr. Works”?

So, when Martin Luther made “Salvation is by faith, alone” his rallying cry, and John-Paul II said, “Salvation is NOT by faith, alone,” who was right?


#13

[quote=BibleReader]Who, of the three, does Jesus CLEARLY prefer?

“Mr. Faith-Without-Works #1”?

“Mr. Faith-Without-Works #2”?

Or, “Mr. Works”?

[/quote]

Well said! :clapping:


#14

Here’s why it’s still a gift:

Think about a parent and a child. The child has always had trouble being bad (just as humans always have trouble being sinful). Imagine the two at a store, and the child asks, “Mom, will you get me this toy if I clean the kitchen?” The parent says, “No, doing good things cannot buy you anything.” This is what Jesus says to us. Now imagine the child says, “Can I have it for a gift on my birthday?” The mother responds, “If you are good, and keep your room clean, and do what I tell you, then yes.” This is what Jesus says to us. If the boy is good, and does the things his mother says, then they boy will get the gift. If he does not, the mother will not buy the boy the gift. This is what Jesus does with us. Our work can’t get him to give us salvation. However, He offers it to us as a gift, so long as we do what he says and follow his rules, just like the mother. In both cases, it is still a gift.


#15

Wonderful responses! I am so grateful to all of you who are so knowledgeable and willing to share that knowledge. I have learned so much from all of you. :thumbsup:

Peace,
Linda


#16

Wow BibleReader what an awsome response :clapping:

I have never heard it put so easily to undrstand as you have, thank you. I think that Our lady smile down on you :wink:

God Bless.


#17

How can a man of GOD live in Hell? JP2 lived in a holy life. Maybe holier than any protestant pastors. So if they say that JP2 is in hell then maybe we can say that their pastors may also be in hell right now?

  1. Does the bible really speak against praying to saints and such (I know there are probably a million times this has been asked but I have a couple more questions, so I wanted to put them all together)

This one of the misconceptions of protestant and they continue to believe in this. Catholics pray *with *the saints or ask for intercession to pray for them to GOD.

We honour this saints in the life that they had lived for GOD. It is like honouring your national hero.


#18

[quote=Steven87]I can’t believe how easily I cracked and believe the garbage I read… I am so full of pitty for myself it’s not even funny. My faith is next to non existent at times and it doesn’t take much for me to get into this state of non-belief… Even the words of an ignorant punk on the internet made me question my faith in the bible.

Will I ever actually be happy as a catholic???
[/quote]

well, look at what you did. you reached out for help. that can still be an act of faith. faith is not about always feeling confident about what you believe. faith is about trusting Jesus Christ. asking questions about Him and His Bible does not always and necessarily indicate a state of non-belief. (okay, so you say you fell for what you read, but still you asked for help.) we’re all going to fall into depression and doubt some time or another. the question is what we’re going to do about it. do we give up? or do we pray, ask for help, and persevere?

don’t worry too much, steven87. take a deep breath, ask for help, then put that site on your ignore list.


#19

Thank you all for your reply’s, it helped a lot… I think I am once again on the right track (fo how long, who knows?)

They really were awesome reply’s, and I am so glad that I found this forum, because without you guys I would be so lost!


#20

[quote=DavidFilmer]When I was a rad-trad Anglican, I took delight in asking fundamentalist-type protestants which Bible they used. When they said, “the KJV,” I answered, “Well, King James the Second was an Anglican. We’re glad you like our Bible.”

Of course, traditional Anglican Christianity (which gave us the KJV) bears about as much resemblance to fundamentalist Christianity as fire bears to ice.
[/quote]

Hehe. :smiley:


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.